Andrews of Cork

[Perks]

I am trying to find a marriage for Richard Andrews to Ellen Lucey in Cork - who I believe were the parents of my grandfather Frederick John Andrews b. 1876. I have found an Ellen Lucey (widow) - aged 56 - in the Cork 1901/1911 census returns wih several other children.

Frederick turned up in 1901 English census in London, the year he married my grandmother. On the certificate his father was named as Richard (deceased). I have a birth certificate for Frederick, where his father is Richard and mother Ellen (nee Lucey) in 1876,

Because of the difficulties with census returns having been destroyed, I am unable to find his family prior to 1901.

Can anyone help please?

[Mutley]

OK, let us start with what you know and work back in time.
Frederick is in the 1901 census, what is the reference, where in London was he (north or south of the Thames) and what is grandma's name?

Exactly where was Frederick's birth registered?

Have you found them in 1911?

Although you know your family, we need to learn all about them too, otherwise we are plucking people from anywhere.
Andrews is quite a common name and just entering Richard Andrews born 1876 into a pay per view site returns
72 of them in 1881, 58 in 1891, 54 in 1901 and 68 in 1911.

I'd like to reduce those numbers considerably.

[Mutley]

I am trying to find a marriage for Richard Andrews to Ellen Lucey in Cork - who I believe were the parents of my grandfather Frederick John Andrews b. 1876. I have found an Ellen Lucey (widow) - aged 56 - in the Cork 1901/1911 census returns wih several other children.

Sorry I am confused, should Ellen in 1901 and 1911 be Ellen Andrews not Ellen Lucey?

[DocDAve]

You are in luck I think. HAve you gone to familysearch.org? pop in Richard an Ellen and there is an 1871 Cork city marriage

[Mutley]

Lots of links to Cork if you google for
http://
freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mturner/cork/ire.cork.htm

[Perks]

|Hi DocDave - I have tried that, but I do not get anything relevant come up - lots of Dublin and Cork entries but not the right dates. How did you manage to get this entry? (Do you know something I don't)

Regards

[DocDAve]

Hello - I get four baptisms for 1872-1879 for children born to Richard Andrews and Ellen Lucey in Cork, Cork by entering the terms
as follows into familysearch.org, advanced search
Andrews / event-birth / place - ireland / 1875 +/-5 yrs / parents as said /
I got one Ellen Lucey marriage for Cork, Cork 1871 ( which fits with the births) by putting Ellen Lucey, marriage, ireland, 1871. There are two others for Dunmanway ( in Co. Cork) and Macroom ( wherever that is ). You will be able to order a marriage certificate from groireland.ie if you are happy with the 1871 marriage and the family being from Cork City. Savi?

[Perks]

OK, let us start with what you know and work back in time.
Frederick is in the 1901 census, what is the reference, where in London was he (north or south of the Thames) and what is grandma's name?

Exactly where was Frederick's birth registered?

Frederick John Andrews reg. Cork 1876

Marriage cert: Frederick John Andrews to Alice Augusta Champion - fathers Richard Andrews (deceased) and CharlesChampion. Married in London.December 1901.
Frederick died 1911.

There are no census returns available for Cork until 1901 and 1911 when Ellen Andrews appears as a widow (which would be expected if Richard died before 1901 (according to Frederick's marriage cert). Frederick turns up in the 1901 census in London, where he presumably met my grandmother.

1901 census - Ellen living at St Patrick Terrace Cork with eight children ages from 33 to 17
1911 census - Ellen living at 4 Verdon Row, Cork with three daughters and son in law

The marriage certificate for Richard and Ellen would now be a key link in being able to trace the Andrews back. Family myth has it that Richard was from a mill owning family in England, but I can't verify anything without his age and father's name.

regards

[Mutley]

I looked at the Cork marriage earlier (Cork vol 5 page 200). The trouble is that if this was the marriage of Richard and Ellen you would expect to find a corresponding entry for Richard Andrews with the same reference and there doesn't seem to be one.

Exactly the same problem I had when searching on the IFHF. There are entries for an Ellen Lucey but nothing for a Richard Andrews.

[Mutley]

I am still trying to take baby steps backwards and apologise for giving you what you know already and not what you want. The ole Mut works slowly these days but we do have some upwards moving young members that pick up on minor details I miss.

Alice's baptism is easy to find on Ancestry.

The banns for the marriage of Frederick and Alice at Poplar All Saints state he was a bachelor of 60 Canton Street and she a spinster of 86 Tetley Street.

At the marriage on the 25th December 1901 he is 25, a shop assistant and she is 23.
Fred gives his father as Richard Andrews a dec'd engineer.
Alice's dad was Charles the blacksmith.
The witnesses were Sutherland Champion and Israel Isaacs.

Frederick John Andrews born 1876, Cork, Father Richard
but marriage certificates are not always entirely correct. Hmmmm....