FRANKS

[lisacam68]

The two passports are in her married names, but her maiden name is given as Franks. They probably weren't as strict in those days regarding all the documents required for a passport.

I have searched London Gazette and not found anything.

Yes think it will be a good idea to order that birth certificate! Will let you know!

[lisacam68]

Looks like we have found my nan!!

Leah Joseph born 24 June 1910 Bethnal Green. Mother Lavinia Joseph formerly Fry. Father Frank Joseph, Tailor.

I was looking for a birth for a Lavinia Fry and I found one in 1968 in Newbury. I also found an Alice Ruth Fry born in Cookham, Berks who I have also found in the 1871 & 1881 census. She is a Ruth Davis in 1901 and then Ruth Franks in 1911.

I was wondering if she was born Ruth then converted to Judaism when she meet my great grandfather and changed her name to Lavinia?

My next step at some point is to get marriage certificate for Lavinia Fry to Frank Joseph. Once I have Lavinia's father's name that will help. Plus might try and trace the Polish side of family one day!

This is so exciting. Thank you so much for all your help! This family has been so difficult to trace and their habit with changing their names didn't help at all!

[Kerrywood]

Looks like we have found my nan!!
Leah Joseph born 24 June 1910 Bethnal Green. Mother Lavinia Joseph formerly Fry. Father Frank Joseph, Tailor.

Terrific news -- so pleased!

Yes, I think the 1904 marriage is the next step, as posted by olliecat in post #35.

If you find from the marriage certificate that Lavinia's father was George FRY, have a look at post #37 above.

I was looking for a birth for a Lavinia Fry and I found one in 1968 in Newbury.

I wonder if Lavinia FRY born 1868 in Newbury registration district might also have been known as Louisa FRY? Have a look at these census returns for George FRY and family?

1871 - Woolhampton, Thatcham, Berkshire. Age 45 Sergeant of Police
(with daughter Louisa FRY aged 3 born Thatcham)
RG10/1247 folio 20 page 1

1861 - East Ilsley, Berkshire. Age 35 County Police Sergeant.
RG9/737 folio 130 page 14

(census records held by TNA, Crown copyright)

In 1856 George FRY of Penkridge, Staffordshire, was appointed to Berkshire County Police Force.
Age when appointed - 30.
Residence when appointed - Longton
(Berkshire Record Office Quarter Sessions records, Q/APE/1/1/87)

Her father was Chief Constable of Hertfordshire

Wrong county, but the right sort of occupation?

Just a suggestion.

Let us know about the marriage if/when you get it?

[lisacam68]

I will definitely get the marriage certificate next. Then might be an idea to get a birth certificate for one of the Davis children to find out name of mother, whether it will say Ruth or Lavinia, just really to prove to myself and others that Ruth and Lavinia are the same person!! Then I will eventually get Lavinia's birth certificate. Can't get them all at once as this is starting to get an expensive hobby!!!!

My mum thought there was a connection to Staffordshire, so maybe the George Fry could be promising, but will wait and see once I have marraige certificate.

[lisacam68]

I got the marriage certificate back today.

13th November 1904 East London Synagogue
Frank Joseph 33 bachelor, Ladies Tailor, 29 Artillery Lane, Father Joseph Joseph Deceased
Lavinia Fry 30 spinster, same address, Father Edward Fry Deceased

Witnesses Emanuel Rloot & E Staal

I've searched the census and not found anything regarding Lavinia's family, need her mother's name now!

I was also wondering whether to write to synagogue to get Marriage Authorisation Certificate and also to see if they have info regarding Lavinia converting, as I now think Ruth was her Jewish name and Lavinia her birth name (Lavinia is the name on all offical documents, marriage, births and her death certificate). So she may have converted when she was with Mr. Davis.

[Kerrywood]

Thanks for the update. The father's name is a surprise.

I now think Ruth was her Jewish name

I believe Ruth (and Sarah) were quite common names to take on conversion.

I was also wondering whether to write to synagogue to get Marriage Authorisation Certificate and also to see if they have info regarding Lavinia converting

The East London Synagogue closed a long time ago. Details here ...
www.
jewishgen.org/jcr-uk/London/EE_eastlondon_utd/index.htm

To access the marriage authorisation and any records of conversion, you'll need to write to the Beth Din. Advice on how to proceed is given here ...
www.
british-jewry.org.uk/bethdin.html

You should be aware that obtaining marriage authorisations is rather slow and quite costly (£20), and the record is unlikely to give you the mother's name. For a sample of the sort of information you might get on the authorisation, please see this page ...
www.
jgsgb.org.uk/marriage-authorisations

That's not to say you shouldn't get it -- any piece of evidence might help.

[lisacam68]

Thanks for that info.

I will write to Beth Din as I would like marriage authorisation and it might provide a little bit more info for me!

[lisacam68]

ref post #43

Just got Naturalization Certificate back for Lavinia, as she lost nationality when she married Joseph, and it states that she was born in Thatcham 6 February 1868 and her parents were George and Martha Fry! So don't know why it had Edward on her marriage certificate, maybe a middle name, who knows as they like to keep changing their names!

Thought I'd just update info!!

[Kerrywood]

Thought I'd just update info!!

Thanks for coming back with this.

it states that she was born in Thatcham 6 February 1868 and her parents were George and Martha Fry!

Ah, good! A very useful find.

So don't know why it had Edward on her marriage certificate

As has often been said on these forums, fathers' names on marriage certificates can be unreliable, for all sorts of reasons. It could perhaps be connected with her former liaison with Mr DAVIS, which I believe is still unresolved?

Anyway, an excellent result all round, well done!

[markfry]

hi,

I'm researching my family tree and i've found this thread. i've got a Lavinia fry she was one of 15 children her parents were george fry and martha davenport. i've got lots of information about the family but not much on Lavinia who was a surprise to me. i would be pleased to hear from you.
Mark Fry