FRANKS

[lisacam68]

Hi,
I am desperate to find out about my father's maternal side of the family and am stuck!
I can not find my nan's birth record on any searches I have done, as I would like to obtain her birth certificate to get her mother's maiden name. Unfortunately we know nothing about my nan's family as her parents were Jewish and she married out of the faith, so was mourned out of the family. My dad doesn't know anything which really frustrates me!!
I have my nan's 2 marriage certificates and death certificate. She first married in 1927 at St Pauls Shadwell, she stated that her age was 21, but she lied about her age so she could marry (from what I remember she told me she was 16). Her father at this time is stated as Joseph Franks and is deceased. Her death certificate states that her date and place of birth was 24 June 1910 Bethnal Green, Tower Hamlets. My dad has confirmed that her birth name was Leila or something similar! So does anyone know why I can't find her or how can I?
My dad does not know my nan's mother's name. She forgave my nan and lived with them in Edmonton until she died, which was around the time my dad first started school, so around 1943 ish. I have done searches for Franks deaths in Edmonton around this time and have found nothing. My dad confirmed she married twice, thinking Joseph Franks was husband no 1, so that would explain why I can't find her. Her father was Chief Constable of Hertfordshire, done some google searches but not found anything.
My nan's father was a Joseph Franks, we were told he was a Polish Jew and he was a tailor and that's all I know! He died before my nan was married and she was taught about his trade, so I guess he died a few years before her marriage.
So basically I need my nan's birth certificate to get her mother's maiden name to be able to move on with this, or find out who was Chief Constable of Hertfordshire 1900-1920's!
I have looked at loads of Jewish sites as well, was hoping to find where Joseph was buried but without knowledge of when he died not easy! We were also going to visit the Jewish cemetery in Edmonton for my dad's grandmother but again without a name impossible!!
So any help would be very gratefully received!!
Thanks,
Lisa

[olliecat]

Hi Lisa.

I've re-read your post a couple of times and I know you are looking for your nan born 24 June 1910. Although you have stated that her maiden name is FRANKS, I am confused as to her first name. Do you know it?

Also who did she marry in 1925?

There is a Leah Franks in the 1911 census, born abt 1910 living in Bethnal Green with father Joseph and Joseph is a journeyman tailor. Mother is possibly Ruth (I'm still working it out.) However before we look further, perhaps you could clarify your nan's first name for us and then we can search for a birth certificate for her.

1911 census: RG14/1441 SN389

[lisacam68]

Hi,
Thanks for replying to my post.
My nan's name on her marriage and death certificates was Lilian but her name at birth was Leila (or something similar according to my dad). So I need a birth certificate for a Leila Franks.
Her first marriage was to Charles Arthur Dole in 1927.
Her father Joseph Franks would have been born in Poland/Russia and her mother was born in Hertfordshire I guess.
I was always under the impression my nan had siblings from stories she told me when I was young.
My dad knew of one brother called David who lived in Edmonton, but don't know anything else about him.

[grisel]

There is a Leah Frank in the 1911 census, born abt 1910 living in Bethnal Green with father Joseph and Joseph is a journeyman tailor. Mother is possibly Ruth (I'm still working it out.) However before we look further, perhaps you could clarify your nan's first name for us and then we can search for a birth certificate for her.

1911 census: RG14/1441 SN389

Looking at the free index for 1911 this couple claim to have married in 1910 but so far I can't see a marriage.
Maybe Leah/Leila was registered under her mother's name?
If it was 1910 in Bethnal Green then there are some possibilities
Jun Q Bethnal G
Leah Lily Bell
Leah Katie Raingo_d
Leah Yanikoff
Sep Q
Leah Gerba
Leah Joseph

No leilas or similar that I can see

[olliecat]

Looking at the free index for 1911 this couple claim to have married in 1910 but so far I can't see a marriage.

I think that could be married 7 years rather than 1 year. The census is not clear but Joseph is enumerated as "Husband" and Ruth is enumerated as "Mother". Well she can't be Joseph's mother since they are approximately the same age, so they are more likely to be husband and wife. Even so, there doesn't appear to be a marriage that matches. There are some DAVIS step children in the census, so it could be an idea to look for births under this surname. I think Ruth DAVIS may be in the 1901 census living in Spitalfields, Whitechapel. I'm not really progressing much with Joseph. He could be using a different surname in 1901.

1901: RG13 Piece: 299 Folio: 123 Page: 9 (crown copyright, care of the TNA)

[grisel]

I think that could be married 7 years rather than 1 year. The census is not clear but Joseph is enumerated as "Husband" and Ruth is enumerated as "Mother". Well she can't be Joseph's mother since they are approximately the same age, so they are more likely to be husband and wife. Even so, there doesn't appear to be a marriage that matches. There are some DAVIS step children in the census, so it could be an idea to look for births under this surname. I think Ruth DAVIS may be in the 1901 census living in Whitechapel. I'm not really progressing much with Joseph. He could be using a different surname in 1901.

1901: RG13 Piece: 299 Folio: 123 Page: 9 (crown copyright, care of the TNA)

Thanks for that Olliecat. Will hunt on..

[lisacam68]

I wondered whether Joseph Franks can't be found in the 1901 census because he wasn't in this country at that time?

[olliecat]

I wondered whether Joseph Franks can't be found in the 1901 census because he wasn't in this country at that time?

It's possible but where are all the children? Since this family is being so elusive in the 1901 census, I'll post some of the details of the 1911. At some point, please look at this census image for yourself.

FRANKS, Joseph, husband, marr, 40, journeyman tailor, Russia
FRANKS, Ruth, mother, marr, 39, Berkshire
FRANKS, Julia, dau 19, felling hand tailoress, Spitalfields
FRANKS, John, son 17, wood carver apprentice, Bethnal Green
FRANKS, Solomon, son, 15, pianoforte maker apprentice, Bethnal Green
FRANKS, Rebecca, dau, 12, Bethnal Green
FRANKS, Zetta [Yetta?], dau, 12, Bethnal Green
FRANKS, Daniel [David?], son, 4, Bethnal Green
FRANKS, Leah, dau, 9 mo, Bethnal Green
DAVIS, Esther, stepchild, 17, Bethnal Green
DAVIS, Eva, stepchild, 12, Bethnal Green

RG14/1441 SN389

Note: for the two stepchildren, there are birth registrations for them in the Whitechapel registration district, so they were more likely born in Spitalfields as per the 1901 census.

(census crown copyright, care of the TNA)

[Mutley]

While searching the 1911 to check out the family I also found a
Soloman Frank married to Sophie (she was a widow with Rosenbloom children).
However, Soloman (b. 1881) was a also tailor, he came from Russia, was living in Stepney and had a daughter called Leah Frank born Stepney in 1908.
RG14/1573 SN138

I wondered if Solomon and Joseph were related, possibly brothers?

I think Solomon is a boarding house in 1901 at St. George in the East with loads of other Jewish Names.
RG13/309 Folio 39 Page 69
(census crown copyright, care of the TNA)

[josie7644]

Hello Lisa,

In 1901, Ruth Davis is a 30 year-old widow, working as a milk dealer, living in Spitalfields, with Rachel E 7, Eva 2 and Sarah G 7 months.

I am guessing that Rachel E is Esther in 1911.

Class: RG13; Piece: 299; Folio: 123; Page: 9 (Copyright TNA)

Still looking for the others!

Josie