Newman - Brickwall

[dozeyden]

Hi
I have hit a brickwall with my great grandfather. My grandfather was Frederick Alfred Newman born 1912-1987. His father was Thomas George Newman and his mother was Phoebe Selina Jellett. Phoebe caused a problem in that she was brought up by her father's sister and her husband under the name of Phoebe Taylor.

I have found Thomas George Newman b 1878 on the 1911 census with Phoebe, their 2 children and living with Emma Daniels, Stanley Booth and Phoebes "adoptive" parents Harriet "Hetty" Taylor and Henry Thomas Taylor.

I have found their marriage certificate from 25 Dec 1902 also. They were living in the Lambeth area at this time. On the marriage certificate Thomas George Newman was a porter and his father was quoted as being Arthur George Newman a deceased constable.

I have Thomas' death certificate which unfortunately does not quote where he was born.

I have found a military record for him which quotes his birthplace as Belvedere, Kent. I have just purchased the Belvedere All Saints parish registers on cd for baptism and marriages and have not found him listed.

I can find no record of Thomas George Newman on any censuses, not even fitting in around Lambeth in 1901 a year before he got married.

I have contacted the GRO for a Thomas George Newman around 1878 with a father Arthur George Newman and they couldnt find anything.

I dont know what I can do next or where I am going wrong? Any help would be appreciated please.

[Raffaele]

There are 2 Thomas George Newman's born 1878

One in West Bromwich and the other in Dover.

His birth record may not include the George - some did record middle names, some did not.
Many people reversed them.

Census ages were not always correct so 1878 might not be his real birth year.

May have been born Belvedere

Thomas Newmans born 1876-1880 in Kent reveals these

Births Sep 1877
NEWMAN Thomas Gravesend 2a 437
Births Dec 1877
Newman Thomas William Malling 2a 549
Births Dec 1878
NEWMAN Thomas George Dover 2a 935
Births Sep 1879
Newman Thomas Herbert Greenwich 1d 916

I would say the Gravesend one is your man.

[Mutley]

Going on the registration districts, I think Greenwich is the nearest. Belvedere (I believe) would have come under Erith or Dartford but if you move East you could be looking at the Woolwich, Plumstead, Deptford areas which would be Greenwich.

Don't know where the Herbert comes into it though.

P.S. There were lots of Taylors around that area, many were watermen.

[Mutley]

There are 2 Thomas George Newman's born 1878

One in West Bromwich and the other in Dover.

His birth record may not include the George - some did record middle names, some did not.
Many people reversed them.

Census ages were not always correct so 1878 might not be his real birth year.

May have been born Belvedere

Thomas Newmans born 1876-1880 in Kent reveals these

Births Sep 1877
NEWMAN Thomas Gravesend 2a 437
Births Dec 1877
Newman Thomas William Malling 2a 549
Births Dec 1878
NEWMAN Thomas George Dover 2a 935
Births Sep 1879
Newman Thomas Herbert Greenwich 1d 916

I would say the Gravesend one is your man.

The Dover born Thomas seems to be in the census with parents George and Rachael.
There is a Gravesend born Thomas with parents Thomas and Ann.

Maybe that eliminates two of them.

[Mutley]

When Thomas and Phoebe Jellett married at Lambeth St. Phillip in 1902, they were living at 32 Chester Street.
Witnesses were H Taylor (I presume Hetty or Henry) and ? Kirkland.

(The family living at 32 Chester Street in 1901 had the surname Ford, none were Thomas or Arthur.)

I know dozeyden probably has this information but it may help those willing to search for him in 1901 and before.

In 1917 Thomas was living at 5 China Sq, Kennington with Phoebe and had 6 children, the first being Reginald George born in Lambeth in 1904. Thomas joined the 4th Royal Sussex.

But where was he before this? I can't find him, sorry!

[Mutley]

The nearest family that I can find are these in 1881 living in Murray Buildings in Lambeth.
Alfred, a Police Constable born 1836 and Eliza, his wife born 1845
Children are Alfred born 1867, William 1869, George 1874, Mariah 1876, Mary Ann 1879.
All born London (the transcription says Middlesex but the original does not, just says London)
RG11/Piece 599, Folio 55, Page 61
(Copyright TNA)

Not quite right are they?
so need to find them before or after 1881 to eliminate them.

[valg]

Hi
I have hit a brickwall with my great grandfather. My grandfather was Frederick Alfred Newman born 1912-1987. His father was Thomas George Newman and his mother was Phoebe Selina Jellett. Phoebe caused a problem in that she was bought up by her father's sister and her husband under the name of Phoebe Taylor.

I have found Thomas George Newman b 1878 on the 1911 census with Phoebe, their 2 children and living with Emma Daniels, Stanley Booth and Phoebes "adoptive" parents Harriet "Hetty" Taylor and Henry Thomas Taylor.

I have found their marriage certificate from 25 Dec 1902 also. They were living in the Lambeth area at this time. On the marriage certificate Thomas George Newman was a porter and his father was quoted as being Arthur George Newman a deceased constable.

I have Thomas' death certificate which unfortunately does not quote where he was born.

I have found a military record for him which quotes his birthplace as Belvedere, Kent. I have just purchased the Belvedere All Saints parish registers on cd for baptism and marriages and have not found him listed.

I can find no record of Thomas George Newman on any censuses, not even fitting in around Lambeth in 1901 a year before he got married.

I have contacted the GRO for a Thomas George Newman around 1878 with a father Arthur George Newman and they couldnt find anything.

I dont know what I can do next or where I am going wrong? Any help would be appreciated please.

Had a look for a marriage for a Arthur George Newman..searched 1855-1880- couldnt find any marriage for a Arthur George

[valg]

Hi
I have hit a brickwall with my great grandfather. My grandfather was Frederick Alfred Newman born 1912-1987. His father was Thomas George Newman and his mother was Phoebe Selina Jellett. Phoebe caused a problem in that she was bought up by her father's sister and her husband under the name of Phoebe Taylor.

I have found Thomas George Newman b 1878 on the 1911 census with Phoebe, their 2 children and living with Emma Daniels, Stanley Booth and Phoebes "adoptive" parents Harriet "Hetty" Taylor and Henry Thomas Taylor.

I have found their marriage certificate from 25 Dec 1902 also. They were living in the Lambeth area at this time. On the marriage certificate Thomas George Newman was a porter and his father was quoted as being Arthur George Newman a deceased constable.

I have Thomas' death certificate which unfortunately does not quote where he was born.

I have found a military record for him which quotes his birthplace as Belvedere, Kent. I have just purchased the Belvedere All Saints parish registers on cd for baptism and marriages and have not found him listed.

I can find no record of Thomas George Newman on any censuses, not even fitting in around Lambeth in 1901 a year before he got married.

I have contacted the GRO for a Thomas George Newman around 1878 with a father Arthur George Newman and they couldnt find anything.

I dont know what I can do next or where I am going wrong? Any help would be appreciated please.

Had a general look at Thomas George Newmans-freebmd-1877-1879 not to many, while trying to track them thru census came acoss this one
Thomas Newman-Drapers Porter-brn 1879 Cambridgeshire.
RG13-269-52-35-Shoreditch.

[Raffaele]

I have just been checking. Everything looks fine back to Thomas George.
Notably, he has father deceased on his wedding certificate. A favourite trick of someone with a past to lose.

Who were the witnesses ? Perhaps thay can give a lead on him.

[Richard1955]

This is a possibility:
Thomas Newman. b1879 Holland. Hotel servant in St Luke. London.
1901 census crown copyright TNA RG13 260/6/4

Perhaps the witnesses are also working in the same hotel.