Richard Cock St Minver

[PSzelewski52]

I hope I am on the right board. I have searched high and low and can't find a post already, so here goes, please be patient with me.
I have Richard Cock b 1801 in my tree and am having trouble finding birth and death.
According to 1851 &1861 census place of birth is St MinverCornwall. In 1851 lived St Leonards Shoreditch with daughter & her husband John Bennett & 2 children.
Interestingly in 1861 his profession is "Carpenter with a wooden leg."
Married Keziah Stocker, ( b Offwell Devon prob 1794, claimed 1805), July 1825 St Dunstan's All Saints, Stepney found on A* Pallot's Marriage Index, London, England Marriages & Banns 1754-1921, some transcriptions have listed his wife as Fleria, some as Nickyer so I have searched widely for differing spellings.
The only child I have found is Mary Ann Cock b 1826.
There are some criminal registers for a Richard Cock but it is speculative as the registers don't give the date of birth of the person. I have found Jan 1822 Cornwall, 1 July 1845 Clerkenwell Court (London)
I can't be sure that I have the right record for 1841, the only one I can find is of him visiting Cornwall St Minver (with daughter,Mary Ann or perhaps this is not his daughter?) The alternative is of his daughter staying with a potential Aunt in London,and is his wife?
1871 I can find his wife, his daughter but no sign of Richard. I have looked for his death but can't find it. Is it possible that this person would have travelled up and down from Cornwall to London in those days, without express trains? Am I trying to make the facts fit my people? Maybe I have been barking up the wrong tree? I am rambling on now and showing signs of total confusion. Please help me if you can. Many thanks.

[Jellylegs]

In 1871 Keziah is enumerated as a Widow (RG10/468/46/27).

Richard died on 05 May 1868 at 7 Maidstone Place (where he was living in the 1851 and 1861 census). He can be found on Ancestry's England and Wales National Probate Calendar 1861-1941. Definitely him as it mentions his occupation and his widow Keziah.

In 1841, I think Keziah is at (HO107; Piece 704; Book/Folio 3/44; Page 13) Maidstone Street, St. Leonards, Shoreditch. FMP have her transcribed as COOK, aged 40, not born in County, Trade/Profession Ind. (independent means). Richard and Mary Ann are not with her.

(record held by TNA, Crown Copyright)

[PSzelewski52]

Jellylegs you are amazing!
This definately fits the family profile. I just can't believe that you have solved one of the mysteries. Please don't laugh when I ask you what is FMP? I'm sure it's obvious but I just can't work it out, silly me!
Thanks a million, you are indeed knowledgeable and very hepful.

[Jellylegs]

If I am looking at the same 1841 census that you are, then it looks as though Richard (aged 35) and Mary (aged 13) are visiting what could be his parents, Samuel and Mary. All born in the County except Mary. Haven't found a baptism for Richard yet, but will look again.

[PSzelewski52]

Yes this is the census that I keep coming back to. I wondered if Samuel and Mary were his parents, I suppose that they could also be gparents. It makes me wonder how easy a journey back to Cornwall from London would have been in 1841 and what circumstance would have triggered such a treck. Thank you so much for all your help, Richard is quite elusive, I see plenty for Zennor, but I think that's some distance from the claimed St Minver?

[PSzelewski52]

Looking carefully again at the 1841 census and seeing on the web some trees already done and including the parents Samuel Cock m Mary Hoyle, I still can't find Richard as part of the family and wonder if he was an accidental addition to one of the children and given the name of Cock? Would there be any way of finding out if he was an illigitimate child do you know? Again I could be barking up the wrong tree but there seems to be such a lack of evidence for him.
I will order up a copy of the Grant of Probate to see if there is anything that corroborates his place of birth.
Thanks again for all your help, I have at least got his death and probable 1841 location.
I am grateful to you for your help.

[Jellylegs]

The trouble with the 1841 census is that it does not show relationships between those in the same household. As I said, it could be that Samuel and Mary are Richard's parents. He may just have been visiting - they could be Aunt and Uncle for all we know.

The IGI has a christening of a Richard Cock in St. Minver, Cornwall in 1808 - parents John Cock and Grace.
I had a quick look and found the following christenings in St. Minver with parents listed as John and Grace

01.07.1804 John
13.08.1806 Betsy
31.07.1808 Richard
28.03.1813 William
10.07.1815 Mary

Looking to see if maybe Samuel and John could be related, I found the following christenings on the IGI to parents Richard Cock and Ann in St. Minver.

10.08.1867 William
27.12.1768 Honour
26.08.1770 Nancy
18.08.1772 William
27.12.1774 Samuel
12.10.1777 John
09.01.1780 Richard

I don't know if the actual Parish registers would give more info - worth having a look though.

[Mutley]

Jellylegs you are amazing!
This definately fits the family profile. I just can't believe that you have solved one of the mysteries. Please don't laugh when I ask you what is FMP? I'm sure it's obvious but I just can't work it out, silly me!
Thanks a million, you are indeed knowledgeable and very hepful.

FMP is Find My Past, a paying site with lots of records including the 1911 census.
I've been looking at your Mary Ann,
She was baptised on Oct 22 1826 at Hackney St. John and seems to be, as far as I can find, the only child of Richard, (a carpenter) and Keziah. They were living in Honerton at the time.

Was Samuel also a Carpenter?

Anyway,
I was looking at the young Richard Mills that was in the household of Henry and Sarah Cock with a 15 year old Mary Ann and 15 year old Sarah. HO107, Piece 684, Book 8, Civil Parish St Pancras (TNA Copyright)
He seems to have been baptised on 22 Nov 1840 the son of Richard and Henrietta Mills of Park Street.
Unfortunately, I cannot tie these in with your Richard at all.

[Mutley]

When Mary Ann married John Bennett 6 Aug 1848 they both signed their names, as did the witnesses
R. Cock and Matilda Bowles.

Interestingly, Mary Ann's father, Richard Cock and John Bennett and his father Joseph were all Carpenters.

[PSzelewski52]

Thank you Jellylegs, The info on the IGI is interesting, can I assume that this will be backed up by primary souces?

I will attempt the Parish registers, I haven't found them on A* so will see how I go about looking at them.