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  1. #1
    clare_bear
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    Default Brian Sidney Carter Wotton

    Hi all,

    I need some advice, but I need to confess the ultimate FH sin first....

    ...I didn't check a birth certificate. Oops! I feel a bit stupid, I know not to just trust what others have found or what families say, but I did it anyway, probably to save money on the certificate, at the time!

    So, now I've confessed, I hope you can help me!

    My grandfather Brian Sidney Carter Wotton (full name not known earlier), was thought to be the son of Alfred Wotton. When I, eventually, ordered his birth certificate, no father was named. Alfred Wotton was the husband of Brian's mother, Florence Ivy Keen and incorrect assumptions were made. Brian was born on 16th Jan 1924 in Falmouth.

    From Brian's name, it can probably be assumed that 'Carter' was his biological father's name. Recently, it has been brought to my attention that his father may have been a Sidney Carter. Sidney Carter lived in Truro, I believe, but it seems was in the Duke of Cornwall Light Infantry at the same time as Alfred Wotton and is likely to have known him. Apparently, they also worked in a Post Office together and served in the TA together (although I'm yet to have proof of this and I'm a little cautious now after my original stupidity!). So there is circumstantial evidence that Sidney Carter could have met Florence Ivy and fathered Brian.

    There is also a possible family resemblance from photos of Sidney Carter and Brian Wotton, but I'm not great with this sort of thing, so if anyone is good at spotting family resemblances and wouldn't mind PMing me, I can send the photos I have. I imagine it would be fine to post them here (both men are deceased), but I feel a little funny about it.

    Obviously, I need a bit more digging to try to find out whether Sidney Carter was Brian's father, but I don't really know what to do to try to rule out other possibilities. What I should be looking at and where should I be looking, to try to find out?

    Thanks for your time and help, much appreciated.

    Clare

  2. #2
    Jan1954
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by clare_bear View Post
    My grandfather Brian Sidney Carter Wotton (full name not known earlier), was thought to be the son of Alfred Wotton. When I, eventually, ordered his birth certificate, no father was named. Alfred Wotton was the husband of Brian's mother, Florence Ivy Keen and incorrect assumptions were made. Brian was born on 16th Jan 1924 in Falmouth.
    I can see their marriage in the March quarter of 1912 (Falmouth District, volume 5c, page 221), but that is 12 years earlier. Where was Alfred when Brian was born?

    Apparently, they also worked in a Post Office together .....So there is circumstantial evidence that Sidney Carter could have met Florence Ivy and fathered Brian.
    The British Postal Museum and Archive may be the place to delve into.

    Obviously, I need a bit more digging to try to find out whether Sidney Carter was Brian's father, but I don't really know what to do to try to rule out other possibilities. What I should be looking at and where should I be looking, to try to find out?
    You could find that "My Ancestor was a Bastard" could give you some pointers.

    Good luck!

  3. #3
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    As Jan says - where was the husband? There's a basic legal presumption that the mother's husband is the father. Who brought the child up? These questions have a bearing on where to search next.

  4. #4
    clare_bear
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    Thanks Jan and Peter.

    Yes, sorry I should have said....Alfred didn't die until 1937, but I don't know if there was any other reason that he wasn't around.

    I don't really know anything about Alfred, but from Brian Wotton's marriage certificate, he must have known Alfred wasn't his father as he wasn't named on the marriage certificate either.

  5. #5
    clare_bear
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    Is it worth looking for other Sidney Carters in the area? - if there aren't any, that would make it more likely that the Sidney Carter I've found is the father, right? What about other Carters (gulp, that could be a mammoth task!)?

    Cheers

  6. #6
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    if there aren't any, that would make it more likely that the Sidney Carter I've found is the father, right?
    I don't think that probability works that way The best you could say is that it might be one piece of circumstantial evidence but it wouldn't be much use unless you found a lot more evidence.

    There are a lot more questions - what happened to Alfred Wootton? Did he continue living with Mrs Wootton? Were there other children? Who brought them up? Where did the money come from?

    I'd have a look at the book that Jan recommended if I were you ("My Ancestor was a Bastard")

  7. #7
    clare_bear
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    Of course you're right Peter, it could only ever be more circumstantial evidence by ruling out other Sidney Carters. Plus his father's name may not have been Sidney. Definitely clutching at straws!!

    I've ordered the book, so hopefully it won't take too long to get to me.

    Great questions too, Peter. I don't know anything much about Alfred Wotton, but my great Aunt might. I don't know Alfred's whereabouts between Brian Sidney's birth in 1924 and his death in 1937 - I'll ask my aunt, she may be able to give me some clues. It looks like Florence Ivy had a child by another man before she married Alfred (he lists her as a child on his enlistment papers, but with her name as Ethel May Pascoe Keen) - I only discovered this yesterday.

    There were also other children that appear to be his (I haven't ordered all the certificates) - Dorothy Agnes Wotton (born 1912), Stella K I Wotton (b 1918), John D K Wotton (b 1920).

    I also know that my dad was formerly adopted and brought up by Florence Ivy (after his mum died). He was born after Alfred died.

    Florence Ivy was a charwoman, so I don't know where the money came from - I imagine they didn't have much.

    I'll speak to my Aunt and see if she knows any more, but I've never heard any of them talk about Alfred - he died before the remaining family was born.

  8. #8
    clare_bear
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    Hi All

    I'm no further forward, but I have ordered Alfred's death certificate and one his other children's birth certificates - to see if he was his!

    As an 'Alfred timeline', I have this so far:
    1880 birth
    1912 married (to Florence Ivy Keen)
    1912 Dorothy Wotton born
    1916 conscripted and discharged from Army due to ill health. He had rheumatism that made him 'unlikely to become an efficient soldier'
    1918 Stella Wotton born (she appears to have died a year later)
    1920 John D K Wotton born (birth cert ordered)
    1924 Brian Sidney Carter Wotton born - not named on birth cert
    1937 died

    I still have nothing about Alfred's whereabouts between 1920 and 1937. Hopefully the certificates may yield some clues and I still haven't had a chance to talk to my aunt about whether she knows of anything.

    Oh yeah, and Alfred is not named on Brian S C Wotton's marriage certificate - father's name is left blank.

    Cheers
    Clare

  9. #9
    clare_bear
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    Default

    A slight update as I now have a birth certificate for John D K Wotton and Alfred's death certificate.

    Alfred is named on John's certificate as the father, so whatever happened, it happened between 9th Feb 1920 (when John was born) and 1924 when Brian Sidney was born.

    I also have Alfred's death certificate. He died on the 29th June 1937 of:
    I(a) Uraemia
    (b) operation (suprapubic cystotomy)
    (c) retention of urine

    From a quick Google, this is something affecting the urinary system and kidneys, I think. Uraemia is, according to Wiki, 'a term used to loosely describe the illness accompanying kidney failure '.

    That's particularly interesting to me as my uncle on the Wotton side (Brian Sidney's other son) died of kidney failure. Interesting.

  10. #10
    garriem
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    https://www3.telus.net/ggassoc/family...ere/pafg23.htm
    Alfred wotton is my great grandfather, Dorothy wotton is my grandmother

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