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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by olliecat View Post
    cannot read William Glover's occupation or the witness names properly. Perhaps someone else can check this.
    William Glover (deceased) was a Sailor.
    The first witness Henry ?Hammon seems to have been a clerk, as he witnessed the following wedding. The second witness is Harriet Anne Firmin, probably the one mentioned above in #5 by olliecat.
    Sadly, our dear friend Dorothy (alias Thomasin) passed away on Sunday, 17th. February, 2013.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Goodey View Post
    There are ways round logistical problems.
    And fortunately most people have suggestions as to what they may be ;o)

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    Quote Originally Posted by olliecat View Post
    Been trying to figure out which of Josiah/Mary's children could be Harriet's parents.

    So far, it looks like...

    Daughter Harriet Firmin (born abt 1843 in shoreditch) married Samuel Glover in 1882 at Upper Holloway St John.
    Samuel Glover, 42, widower, carpenter, 82 Elthorne Rd, father William Glover (deceased), ??
    Harriet Firmin, 39, spinster, 82 Elthorne Rd, father Josiah Daniel Firmin, smith
    Witnesses: Henry Shannon?, Harriet Anne Firmen???

    Note: For some reason, I can't get the image to zoom past 100% and so cannot read William Glover's occupation or the witness names properly. Perhaps someone else can check this.
    Looks like Samuel and Harriet are In the 1891 census:

    1891: RG12 Piece: 187 Folio: 115 Page: 10 (crown copyright, care of the TNA)

    However, I suspect Harriet and Samuel were living together before the 1882 marriage.

    1881: RG11 Piece: 247 Folio: 64 Page: 10 (crown copyright, care of the TNA)

    There is also a daughter Harriet A Glover born 1864 in Lambeth. So I'm wondering if this is the Harriet Mathers you found in the 1871 census. This is just a suspicion and further work is needed on this.

    Possibly Harriet in 1911.

    1911: RG14/9683 SN173
    I also found this for the 1881 Census
    1881
    MATHERS, Harriet Sister Widow F 39 1842 London Middlesex typo should say visitor! Adds to the confusion.....
    MATHERS, John Son Single M 7 1874 Southsea Hampshire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazee1ady View Post
    I also found this for the 1881 Census
    1881
    MATHERS, Harriet Sister Widow F 39 1842 London Middlesex typo should say visitor! Adds to the confusion.....
    MATHERS, John Son Single M 7 1874 Southsea Hampshire
    It is possible that the surname could be a badly written Mathews, and if so there is this possible birth for the son...

    Births Jun 1873 Portsea 2b 449
    MATHEWS John Joseph

    The following could be the Harriet Mathers/Mathews you found in Derbyshire in 1881 in the later census.

    1891: Piece: 3222 Folio: 112 Page: 15 (crown copyright, care of the TNA)

    1901: Piece: 3222 Folio: 112 Page: 15 (crown copyright, care of the TNA)
    Her age is a bit out here, so ...?

    1911: RG14/20894 SN165
    The son John

    If this is the same Harriet in the 1881 to 1901 census then she was born in Marylebone and so is unlikely to be your Harriet Firmin, born in Shoreditch. However, for the moment, I can't find an appropriate marriage or death for this Harriet to confirm or eliminate her absolutely.

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    If this is the same Harriet in the 1881 to 1901 census then she was born in Marylebone and so is unlikely to be your Harriet Firmin, born in Shoreditch. However, for the moment, I can't find an appropriate marriage or death for this Harriet to confirm or eliminate her absolutely

    I think the Harriet Mathers is a red herring ........ but interesting why Harriet Mathers becomes Glover? Mind you I have had all sorts of weird things on my tree with one person having 3 names, the one she was born with, her mothers maiden name pretending her grandfather was her father then her mothers new husbands name.... so nothing surprises me anymore....

    thansk for all the looking ) Ive been scouting about finding births etc for all the new records thrown up )

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    I am descended through George and am currently trying to trace Josiah's birth details and his parents. My greatgrandfather George never named any of his children Josiah or Daniel, although he gave his daugther the name of Mary Ann Taunton. I am intrigued if there was a rift here. I have asked a researcher in Essex to look into Josiah's past. I am happy to share.

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    Quote Originally Posted by V Ovington View Post
    I am descended through George and am currently trying to trace Josiah's birth details and his parents. My greatgrandfather George never named any of his children Josiah or Daniel, although he gave his daugther the name of Mary Ann Taunton. I am intrigued if there was a rift here. I have asked a researcher in Essex to look into Josiah's past. I am happy to share.
    Would be good to see where we all fit in )

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    Default Firmin

    I have not got back any further with regard to Josiah Firmin's baptism or parents. However, I was aware that my grt grandfather named one of his daughters Mary Ann Taunton Firmin. In addition I knew (some time ago) after getting in touch with other Taunton interests that a Lilian Firmin Taunton had been born on 12 March 1893, parents Nathan Taunton and Harriet Ann Taunton, formerly Glover. I was aware of a Harriet Mathers on the census, so perhaps these are the connections I have been missing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by V Ovington View Post
    I have not got back any further with regard to Josiah Firmin's baptism or parents. However, I was aware that my grt grandfather named one of his daughters Mary Ann Taunton Firmin. In addition I knew (some time ago) after getting in touch with other Taunton interests that a Lilian Firmin Taunton had been born on 12 March 1893, parents Nathan Taunton and Harriet Ann Taunton, formerly Glover. I was aware of a Harriet Mathers on the census, so perhaps these are the connections I have been missing.
    Well...Josiah Firmin married a Mary Ann Taunton....and as far as I have traced they had 5 children. George being the youngest also my direct ancestor. (I then decend through Arthur 1877) The others being Edward 1832 Mary 1836 Harriet 1842 and William 1846. Harriet Firmin it would appear had a daughter out of wedlock (Harriet Mathers) who in all other records appears as Harriet Firmin :-

    Harriet 1842 later married Samuel Glover in 1882

    Samuel Glover, 42, widower, carpenter, 82 Elthorne Rd, father William Glover (deceased), Sailor
    Harriet Firmin, 39, spinster, 82 Elthorne Rd, father Josiah Daniel Firmin, smith
    Witnesses: Henry Shannon?, Harriet Anne Firmin

    it seems in the 1881 census they were all using Glover and gave Harriet Anne Mathers/Firmin the surname Glover as well even tho they were not at this point married.


    Household:

    Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
    Samuel GLOVER Head M Male 40 Nethr Stoney, Somerset, England Carpenter
    Harriet GLOVER Wife M Female 38 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England
    Harriet A, GLOVER Daug Female 17 Lambeth, Surrey, England Gen Sert
    Source Information:
    Dwelling 75 Junction Rd
    Census Place London, Middlesex, England
    Family History Library Film 1341054
    Public Records Office Reference RG11
    Piece / Folio 0247 / 64
    Page Number 10


    Harriet Anne Glover then did marry Nathan Taunton (I got stuck for a while as ancestry has typos!) Mary Firmin 1836 (her aunt) married a Benjamin Carr and they were the witnesses at her marriage.

    Harriet Ann Glover
    Age: 28
    Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
    Spouse Name: Nathan Sawton <~~~~~~~ typo
    Spouse Age: 30
    Record Type: Marriage
    Marriage Date: 05 Jun 1892
    Parish: St Luke
    COUNTY: London
    Borough: Hackney
    Father Name: Samuel Glover
    Spouse Father Name: John Sawton <~~~~~~~~ typo

    1901 census
    Nathan Taunton 39
    Harriet Taunton 37
    Lillian Taunton 8 <~~~~~ Lilian Firmin
    Edith Taunton 6 <~~~~~ Edith Harriet

    Another daughter died

    Name: Beatrice Sarah Taunton
    Record Type: Baptism
    Estimated Birth Date: abt 1899
    Baptism Date: 15 Sep 1899
    Father's Name: Nathan Taunton
    Mother's Name: Harriet Ann Taunton
    Parish or Poor Law Union: Hackney St Luke
    Borough: Hackney
    Register Type: Parish Registers

    Name: Beatrice Sarah Taunton
    Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
    Date of registration: Apr-May-Jun 1900
    Age at Death: 0
    Registration district: Hackney
    Inferred County: London
    Volume: 1b



    Harriet died in 1944

    Name: Harriett A Taunton
    Birth Date: abt 1864
    Date of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1944
    Age at Death: 80
    Registration district: Essex South Western
    Inferred County: Essex
    Volume: 3a
    Page: 278

    Lilian Firmin Taunton never married and died in Essex in 1957


    What would be interesting to discover is if Mary Ann Taunton wife of Josiah was related to Nathan in some way! This I will now have to investigate!

    George Firmin obviously called his daughter Mary Ann 'Taunton' Firmin after his mother.....

    But none of the above although interesting, helps us find anything further back than Josiah LOLOLOL

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    Default Harriet Firmin

    I have Harriot's (sic) Birth cert:

    19 Jan 1842 16 Kings Head Court Shoreditch, father Josiah Firman, mother Mary Ann Firman, formerly Taunton.

    I have also been supplied with the following info:

    Spitalfields, Christchurch. Baptised 20 Dec 1811 (born 29 Nov 1811) Mary Ann daughter of John TAUNTON, soldier of Quaker Street, by Elizabeth.

    There is a John Taunton on the 1851 census HO107/1541, folio 427 for 19 Tyrrell Street, Bethnal Green

    TAUNTON, John Head Mar 63 Silk Engine Weaver, b Warwicks, Coventry
    " Elizabeth, Wife, 63 also born Warwicks
    " Thomas, son unm, 23, silk dyer, born Middx Bethnal Green
    " Elizabeth, dau, unm, 17 silk weaver, born Middx Bethnal Green

    So, yes this is getting us back no further for Josiah - and my researcher found nothing under the Halsteads or Maplesteads areas, but sometimes sideways research develops a theme.

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