Susannah Clemson b.1865. Where?

[terrysfamily]

All Census references crown copyright c/o TNA

I’m looking for the birth or anymore info on Sushannah Clemson.

Susannah is the wife of William Alfred Pressdee married Jun 1896 in Church Stretton Shropshire. Ch. Stretton 6a 1235

1901 Census

Susannah Pressdee b.1865 Ryton Eleven Towns Salop is the head of the household living with her daughter Ellen M. b. 1898 Church Stretton. Susannah is married but I don’t know where her Husband is.

In the 1911 census William Pressder (sic) is a widower.

Their daughter Ellen May now aged 13 is in the household of Thomas CLEMSON, b.1879 Oswestry Shropshire in Oswestry. It is enumerated that Ellan May Pressdee is born in Oswestry Shropshire.

Only being able to see the index for 1911 census I am not able to see what relation Ellen is to Thomas.

I can’t find any record of a Susannah Clemson being born in Shropshire around 1865.

I’ve had a look at the census index for 1881 for a Susannah Clemson but nothing came up.

Was Susannah a widow when she married William and therefore not born a Clemson?

It’s not that important that I want to fork out for the marriage cert but it’s one of those niggly little ones that I find myself keep going back to.

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

Terry

[Mike Fisher]

what is Susannah's father's name from the marriage certificate ?

[Mike Fisher]

AH you don't want to buy a marriage cert for Thomas Clemson's neice's mother

[Mike Fisher]

In !901 Thomas is with his parents Joseph and Hannah born Ryton IX Towns
In 1891 he is with them in Ruyton

[Pam Downes]

Their daughter Ellen May now aged 13 is in the household of Thomas CLEMSON, b.1879 Oswestry Shropshire in Oswestry. It is enumerated that Ellan May Pressdee is born in Oswestry Shropshire.

Terry, are you sure that you are not confusing the registration district in which they are living in 1911 with a birthplace? I've looked at three different websites for the 1911 census and none of them say Thomas and Ellen were born in Oswestry.

Working backwards from Thomas Clemson, said in the 1911 census to be 32, and therefore to have been born in 1879.

1901 Ruyton RG13/2542 f 58 p 4
Joseph Clemson, 47, general labourer, Ruyton X1 Towns
Hannah, wife, 53, Whittington, Shropshire
Thomas, son, 22, carpenter, Ruyton X1 Towns

1891 Ruyton, RG12/2114 f 59 p 10
Joseph Clemson, 36, ag labourer, Montford Shropshire
Hannah, wife, 43, Whittington, Shropshire
Thomas, son, 12, Ruyton
Margaret J, daur, 10, Ruyton
(next page)
Mary E, daur, 7, Ruyton
Emily, daur, 5, Ruyton

1881 is a bit iffy. Parts of this one match, parts don't.
Ruyton of Xl Towns, RG11/2655 f 75 p 24
Indexed on Ancestry as Cumpstor.
Joseph, 35, joiner, Salop
Martha, wife, 33,
Martha E, daur, 9,
Joseph, son, 7,
Mary, daur, 6,
Emma, daur, 4,
Thomas, son, 2,
Wife and children all born Ruyton.
Think I've sussed out the problem with the wife's name - drippy enumerator just got his lines crossed and wrote Martha as wife and daughter instead of just daughter.
Interestingly, Joseph Clemson married Hannah Edwards March quarter 1880. Haven't checked if the elder children were born Clemsons or Edwards (i.e. was Hannah a widow when she married Joseph?).
Joseph being a joiner in this census could fit with Thomas becoming a carpenter.

Taking Joseph further back
In 1861 there is this possibility
Crickheath RG9/1877 f 43 p 8
William Clemson, 36, railway lab, Kinnerley parish Shropshire
Jane, wife, 26, Shrawardine
Joseph, son, 6, Endson,
Mary, daur, 3, Kinnerley parish
Hannah, daur, 1, Oswestry
All places in Shropshire

Most of that family seem to have disappeared into thin air for the 1871 census. However if you return to Susannah Clemson -

1901 census says she's 36, and living in Church Stretton registration district.
Bit of a coincidence that within 6 months there's the death registration in Church Stretton registration district for a Hannah Pressdee aged 40. Aged 40 would make her born circa 1860-61. Which just happens to be quite a good fit for the Hannah aged 1, in the 1861 census who has a brother called Joseph, who might have had a son called Thomas who in 1911 has Susannah/Hannah's daughter living with him.
Susannah and Hannah are often interchangeable.
Can't easily see Susannah/Hannah in other census.

It doesn't all fit, and I really think that the only way you can be sure is to buy or find in the PRs the marriage of Susannah and William to confirm Susannah's father's name.
Pam

(Census in the care of TNA, and Crown copyright.)

[terrysfamily]

Terry, are you sure that you are not confusing the registration district in which they are living in 1911 with a birthplace? I've looked at three different websites for the 1911 census and none of them say Thomas and Ellen were born in Oswestry.

Sorry Pam, you're totally correct. I messed up when I said that they were born in Oswestry. I was looking at the index only and that was the registration district. I don't know whats up with my head lately, sure I'm losing it lol.

You're absolutly right, I'll have to take a look at the PR's next time I visit Shrewsbury Archives. Looks like this one will have to be put back on the back burner for a little while longer. J ust hope I don't get fuddled and repost it in a few months time.

Thank you both Mike and Pam. Sorry for messing you about.

Terry

[Pam Downes]

Hi Terry,
No probs. Took me a l-o-n-g while to sort out things like registrations districts as opposed to just the name of a place, which is why I'm now very particular about specifying registation district when appropriate. As in

Susannah is the wife of William Alfred Pressdee married Jun 1896 in Church Stretton Shropshire. Ch. Stretton 6a 1235

Would I be correct in saying that you don't at this moment know where the marriage took place, only that it took place in the Church Stretton registration district?

Doing a little jig - I've found William Pressdee in 1881.
RG11/2623 f 28 p 6 living in Church Stretton.
Indexed as Pressace on both Ancestry and FMP as they both use the LDS transcription.

1891
RG12/2089 f 25 p 5 Church Stretton.
Indexed by FMP as Prewdel, and Prendes by Ancestry.

My luck ran out in 1901.
Just his dad (also William) living in Church Stretton, indexed by FMP and Ancestry as Preesdee.
RG13/2513 f 17 p 26
Interesting to note that although William senior had previously given his birthplace as Edgton in 1901 it says Hopesay - which is where William junior was supposedly born. Possibility of another enumerator getting his lines crossed and omitting one of the Williams, and confusing ages and birthplaces?

And how about this one? (I am on a roll, baby. )
1871
Hopesay RG10/2733 f 58 p 14
Father William and mother Catherine with a 'surname' of Perry Dee. Young William Alfred and older siblings Harris and James with a surname of plain Dee. (Ancestry)
FMP have everyone with a surname of Dee, with father William's name indexed as William Presf, and Catherine as Catherine Prefs.

And don't worry about having another bad head day Terry and reposting this query. I'll remember it for you! (If I can remember Mutley's queries from when she first joined the forum I should have no problems remembering one only a few months old. )
Pam

(Census in the care of TNA, and Crown copyright.)

[terrysfamily]

Would I be correct in saying that you don't at this moment know where the marriage took place, only that it took place in the Church Stretton registration district?

Yes, totally correct. All I have is the marriage ref. From FreeBMD

Doing a little jig - I've found William Pressdee in 1881.
RG11/2623 f 28 p 6 living in Church Stretton.
Indexed as Pressace on both Ancestry and FMP as they both use the LDS transcription.

Great Find Pam Thank you very much, wow your good.

1891
RG12/2089 f 25 p 5 Church Stretton.
Indexed by FMP as Prewdel, and Prendes by Ancestry.

No wonder I couldn’t find them, Pressdee = Prewdel ! go figure

My luck ran out in 1901.
Just his dad (also William) living in Church Stretton, indexed by FMP and Ancestry as Preesdee.
RG13/2513 f 17 p 26
Interesting to note that although William senior had previously given his birthplace as Edgton in 1901 it says Hopesay - which is where William junior was supposedly born. Possibility of another enumerator getting his lines crossed and omitting one of the Williams, and confusing ages and birthplaces?

William Snr was one of 8 children born to James press DEE and Elizabeth nee Howelles.

The years of birth are 1816, 1819, 1822, 1823, 1826, 1830, 1831 and 1832.

I have Baptism records for them all except for 2. The one in 1830 and the one in 1832. All with the name DEE

The one born in 1830 is William Snr. I have tried every combination of Pressdee and Dee but with no luck. I know that they must have been living over that way around then as the previous child Jeremiah Dee (my 2nd great grandfather) was baptised there.

Name: Jeremiah Dee
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 19 Mar 1826 LYDBURY NORTH, SHROPSHIRE
Father's Name: James Dee
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C03475-2 Source Film Number: 625304 Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

The one born 1831, Isaac, was baptised back in Hopesay.

And how about this one? (I am on a roll, baby. )
1871
Hopesay RG10/2733 f 58 p 14
Father William and mother Catherine with a 'surname' of Perry Dee. Young William Alfred and older siblings Harris and James with a surname of plain Dee. (Ancestry)
FMP have everyone with a surname of Dee, with father William's name indexed as William Presf, and Catherine as Catherine Prefs.

This William Alfred b.1864 (who married Susannah Clemson) was the son of William Snr b.1830 (who married Catherine Harris)

Although they were all baptised DEE in the early 1800’s by mid century they had taken on the name Pressdee. In the 1841 census James DEE and Elizabeth nee Howelles were enumerated as

DEE, James Press M 55 1786
DEE, Elizabeth F 40 1801 Shropshire

Thanks again Pam.
Terry

All census refs crown copyright c/o TNA

[terrysfamily]

A little more info for future researchers.

William Snr (father of William Alfred and James) retired to Toxteth park in about 1904 to be with is son James.

James was a grocer and provisions dealer he started out as a shop assistant in Church Stretton, so came a long way.

William Snr died there in August 1908 and is buried in Toxteth Park cemetery

PRESSDEE William 78 years Gentleman 356 Mill Street burial 16 August 1908

James followed the way of his father in 1919

PRESSDEE James 57 years - 356 Mill Street Toxteth Park 3 June 1919

James left his wife a tidy nest egg of £4,694 12s 6d which in today’s money would have the same spending worth as £99,573.00

[Hayden Dee]

Hi folks,

I'm trying to reconcile some facts and find out the deal with the Dee family, or the Press Dee family, or the Pressdee family.

My Great Great Grandfather Jeremiah Francis Dee was born in December 1870 in Victoria, Australia. His Birth Certificate says his father was named Jeremiah Dee, born in (sic) England, 49 years old at Jeremiah Jr's birth, making Sr's birth c. 1822. I used BMD Registers to search for "Jeremiah Dee" and found a "Jeremiah Bend Press Dee", born 1822 in Herefordshire, England, whose father was named James Press Dee, and whose mother was named Lucia. The search ended there, as there were no birth, marriage, or death certificates for James Press Dee.

I then went to search google for "James Press Dee" and among this thread, found this article on Ancestry:

I don't know if you have subsequently found this yourselves, given the length of time since your message was posted, but I have Presdee relations living in Shropshire at the time of both the 1841 and 1851 censuses. They are living in Hopesay in Shropshire but James Presdee gives his place of birth as Worcestershire, although all the children were born in Shropshire and his wife Elizabeth was born in the neighbouring village of Acton Scott. They took some tracking down because on the census he is shown as James Press Dee (perhaps an indication of pronunciation since the Worcestershire Presdees seem to favour a double S in the middle?). The rest of the family are then wrongly shown under the surname Dee, even the elder son Jeremaih who is living and working elsewhere. All the Shropshire Presdees seem to originate from James. To go back to your query Elizabeth seems to be a very common name within the family.

What I find quite interesting is the possibility that the surname was "Pressdee" or "Presdee", but was somehow lost in the records and became "Dee". Is anyone aware of this phenomenon, or does anyone have any matching records for the folks I've mentioned? I'd greatly appreciate any help.

Jeremiah Dee
Born: Abt 1820 in Norwich, England
Spouse: Mary Dee (Nee Fitzpatrick) born c. 1837 in Fermanagh, Ireland
Issue: William Bernard Dee [b. 1863]; Eleanon (sp?) Dee [b. 1865]; Mary Jane Dee [b.1869], Jeremiah Francis Dee [b.1870]
Sources: Births in the District of Wyndham in the Colony of Victoria 1871 Schedule A; Register of Births and Baptisms at the Independent Chapel of Bromyard, Herefordshire fom 1696 to 1836, with a Register of Burials from 1784 to 1831 -- RG4 / Piece 3561 / Folio 20