Pre-1838 weddings

[patk]

Hi Patk,




<snip!>

In the 1881 census Thomas North Temple and his wife Jane are living at Seaview Hotel, St Helens, Hampshire. Where, Thomas is a Hotel Keeper.

Marriages Mar 1877
TEMPLE Thomas North I.Wight 2b 744
NORTH Jane I Wight 2b 744

Living with them is Thomas’s Single sister Hannah.

So I would agree with your suspicion that the marriage in Sept. 1828 at Hanwell, Middlesex (originally found by Waitabit) to be the correct marriage.

Terry

As an interesting footnote to this, the Seaview Hotel, St Helens, Hampshire, is still in business, and an email to them resulted in the information that it was sold in 1885, four years after the 1881 census indicating that Thomas North Temple and his wife were running it. Even more interesting is the fact that Thomas North Temple and his wife Jane both died in the second quarter of 1888. An accident or some other violent end, or just a 'orrible coincidence? -- patk

[terrysfamily]

Burial Dates

Deaths Jun 1888
TEMPLE Jane North 42 I Wight 2b 370
TEMPLE Thomas North 52 I Wight 2b 370

Name: Jane North Temple
Burial Date: 17 Apr 1888 Isle Of Wight, Southampton, England
Age: 42
Birth Date: 1846
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B02483-3 Source Film Number: 1470890 Reference Number: Item 11 pg132 ln1055 Collection: England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991

Name: Thomas Nork Temple
Burial Date: 21 Apr 1888 Isle Of Wight, Southampton, England
Age: 51
Birth Date: 1837
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B02483-3 Source Film Number: 1470890 Reference Number: Item 11 pg133 ln1057 Collection: England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991

Terry

[terrysfamily]

The 1901 census shows that Thomas’s sister, Hannah Temple, was still living on isle of Wight, Hampshire.

Deaths Mar 1909 TEMPLE Hannah 76 I. Wight 2b 508

Terry

[patk]

Burial Dates

Deaths Jun 1888
TEMPLE Jane North 42 I Wight 2b 370
TEMPLE Thomas North 52 I Wight 2b 370

Name: Jane North Temple
Burial Date: 17 Apr 1888 Isle Of Wight, Southampton, England
Age: 42
Birth Date: 1846
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B02483-3 Source Film Number: 1470890 Reference Number: Item 11 pg132 ln1055 Collection: England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991

Name: Thomas Nork Temple
Burial Date: 21 Apr 1888 Isle Of Wight, Southampton, England
Age: 51
Birth Date: 1837
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B02483-3 Source Film Number: 1470890 Reference Number: Item 11 pg133 ln1057 Collection: England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991

Terry

Thanks again, Terry. By chance I found on the internet a reference to Thomas North Starnes in The London Gazette for October 10th 1890 in which his debtors are invited to send their claims to Hannah Temple, his sister and administratrix, via an attorney. Thomas's death is precisely dated at 20 April 1888. See: [https://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issu...5420/page.pdf]

The fact that burial dates are four days apart is interesting. I suspect the only way to find out what happened is to order Jane's death certificate. Do they also supply maiden names? I've no idea what Jane's maiden name is because it's not given in the marriage records, where her name is the same as her husband's. I know she was born in the Andover registration district in 1846, but there are 14 Jane's for that year and district.

[patk]

[snip!]. . .I suspect the only way to find out what happened is to order Jane's death certificate. Do they also supply maiden names? I've no idea what Jane's maiden name is because it's not given in the marriage records, where her name is the same as her husband's. I know she was born in the Andover registration district in 1846, but there are 14 Jane's for that year and district.

To answer my own question, Jane's maiden name really seems to be North. Interesting that her maiden name should be the same as her husband's middle name. In the 1871 census she was living with her aunt Mary Temple (born about 1775) at Isleworth. Also present was Thomas N. Temple, Mary's son and Jane's future husband.

Ten years earlier, the North family were all at Barton Stacey (Andover registration district) where Jane's father, Robert, was a farmer, and she had a sister named Nancy or Nancey.

[Waitabit]

I can't seem to stay away from watching this thread develop Pat. The William Freeman Temple born to Ann Martha Temple & the earlier plain William Temple who married Mary North, Are they necessarily of the same family? Where did the 'Freeman' bit first appear for your positive Family?

Could it be that the first marriage to Ann M Merrett in 1819 was corrrect (even without the mention of "Freeman") perhaps Ann M. died & he then married Mary North. Just to be tidy & all inclusive.

Was he mentioned as a grocer with other childrens baptisms as with Sarahs? Stilll plain William here.

Maybe the 'Freeman' was a forebear of Williams or even of Ann Martha?

Ok, I'm done, thanks for listening

[patk]

I can't seem to stay away from watching this thread develop Pat. The William Freeman Temple born to Ann Martha Temple & the earlier plain William Temple who married Mary North, Are they necessarily of the same family? Where did the 'Freeman' bit first appear for your positive Family?

Could it be that the first marriage to Ann M Merrett in 1819 was corrrect (even without the mention of "Freeman") perhaps Ann M. died & he then married Mary North. Just to be tidy & all inclusive.

Was he mentioned as a grocer with other childrens baptisms as with Sarahs? Stilll plain William here.

Maybe the 'Freeman' was a forebear of Williams or even of Ann Martha?

Ok, I'm done, thanks for listening

Thanks to terrysfamily I'm pretty sure I've eliminated William Freeman Temple from my family tree. It looks very much as though two families are involved:

The Temples (from Isleworth, Middlesex, which is part of the Brentford Registration District).

The Norths (from Barton Stacey or Longparish, Hampshire, which are part of the Andover Registration District).

Where these two families joined is presently unclear. Jane North and Thomas North Temple married in 1877, but the fact that Thomas’s middle name was North strongly suggests an earlier link, probably before 1836 when he was born. My best guess is that it was Thomas's mother Mary who was the cross-over. In the 1871 census she appears, aged 96, as Mary Temple. Her son and a daughter named Anna were living with her in the Brentford Refistration District. But I think her maiden name was North since her place of birth is given as Barton Stacey.

I can't prove this theory since so far as I can see no Mary Temples (or Mary Norths) with a birth year of 1775 appear anywhere else in the records except for the 1871 census. -- patk

[patk]

Thanks to terrysfamily I'm pretty sure I've eliminated William Freeman Temple from my family tree. It looks very much as though two families are involved:

The Temples (from Isleworth, Middlesex, which is part of the Brentford Registration District).

The Norths (from Barton Stacey or Longparish, Hampshire, which are part of the Andover Registration District).

Where these two families joined is presently unclear. Jane North and Thomas North Temple married in 1877, but the fact that Thomas’s middle name was North strongly suggests an earlier link, probably before 1836 when he was born. My best guess is that it was Thomas's mother Mary who was the cross-over. In the 1871 census she appears, aged 96, as Mary Temple. Her son and a daughter named Anna were living with her in the Brentford Refistration District. But I think her maiden name was North since her place of birth is given as Barton Stacey.

I can't prove this theory since so far as I can see no Mary Temples (or Mary Norths) with a birth year of 1775 appear anywhere else in the records except for the 1871 census. -- patk

Again in reply to myself, Mary Temple does appear elsewhere -- in the 1861 census where her correct year of birth is given as 1795. I should have smelled a rat when seeing (in the 1871 census) that her year of birth was 1775 and yet she had a son living with her who was born in 1836.

And the 1861 census more or less clinches that her maiden name was North since at the time her sister-in-law was living with her, and her name was Sarah North.