Henry and Sarah HOLLAND

[Mosaic]

Henry HOLLAND, a travelling brazier/cutler and his wife were my gt gt grandparents. Their son, my gt grandfather was George Henry Holland (also a grinder/cutler) who was christened at Blackfordby, Leicestershire in June 1861. The address given was Ashby Wolds, Leicestershire. Also being christened the same day was Edna SMITH the child of another travelling brazier, Thomas SMITH and his wife Beattie. Maybe there were related???
This is the only information I have been able to find on Henry and his wife and I have not managed to trace any other children for them.

Their son George Henry Holland married a Caroline Johnson born 1864 at Rugeley, Staffordshire. She was a pedlar/hawker/umbrella mender and the daughter of a Joseph Johnson born 1825 Uttoxeter, Staffordshire who was a sweep. Their children were all born at Rugeley, Staffordshire and one, James HOLLAND, was a scissor grinder and the youngest was called Harkless HOLLAND which I think appears to be a gipsy name, so he may have been named after a relative?

I did trace a Henry HOLLAND, scissor grinder, born 1840, Walsall, Staffs at Great Barr, Staffordshire in 1881 census, but with a different wife Emma and young son William. There was also a Patience Holland there with some of the SHERRIFFS.

I would be so grateful if anyone has any information on Henry and Sarah Holland or their other children as it seems odd that I can find nothing on them.

[notanotherminer]

The very first thing that I would suggest is that you obtain George Henry's birth certificate if at all possible. If he is your gt.grandfather you would need this to go further back and discover his mother's maiden name.

How sure are you about the date of his christening and where did you find it?

I ask because there is this birth registration but it's for 1862

Holland George Henry Dec qtr 1862 Melton Mowbray vol 7a page 233

The problem is of course that if they were travellers they might not have registered his birth and/or he might have been christened well away from his birth place.

[notanotherminer]

After checking I don't think the above birth is your man. This person is on the 1871 census living with his widowed mother Elizabeth and a brother, Horace at Wymondham (which comes under the Melton Mowbray registration district)

RG10/3298/62/page 26 Crown Copyright TNA

[notanotherminer]

The above Elizabeth was on the 1861 census married to Frederick Holland, a cattle dealer so definitely not yours

[notanotherminer]

Do you know if Henry or Sarah had middle names? There are a number of baptisms around the Birmingham/Warwickshire districts with parents Henry and Sarah Holland and Henry and Sarah Ann

[notanotherminer]

Mosaic welcome to Brit-Gen by the way.

I have found George and Caroline on the 1891 census living at Horse Fair, Rugeley, Staffs. I'm sure you've probably seen it but if not let me know and I'll post the details.

RG12/2215/139/page 27 Crown Copyright TNA

His place of birth was shown as Brotherby, Leicestershire but I have a feeling that the family weren't there for long which is making it difficult to find them.

I haven't been able to find his 1861 baptism. Can you please let us know where you located it

[Mosaic]

Thank you and I really appreciate your efforts to help me. I got the details from the baptism cert at the local records office and there were no middle names shown for the parents. I also got a copy of George's marriage cert and there is no middle name for his father, Henry, on there. I tried tracing a birth cert for George but couldn't find one for Leicestershire so thought like you that maybe he wasn't registered or was registered elswhere. I can't even find George in any census before 1891.

It is so frustrating to know there were travelling HOLLAND families in the Midlands, yet not be able to find a link to them.

[Mosaic]

Yes, that is the right family Notanotherminer, I have those and the 1901 details. The Brotherby/Blothby bit threw me for a while as I hadn't heard of it. I have since found out that Blackfordby used to be locally pronounced Blofferby!

[notanotherminer]

........I can't even find George in any census before 1891.

That was my next question to you. I've struggled to find any of them before 1891 as well.

There are members on here who have had previous successes with tracing Romanies. Hopefully someone else might be able to find something.

I found their marriage in 1882 on FreeBMD and I was hoping that the place of marriage (Lichfield) would help locate him in 1881 but no such luck.

Do you have Caroline and her parents in all the censuses? If not let me know and I'll concentrate on them for a while

[Mosaic]

No I haven't done much on Caroline Johnson yet. I think her mother was a Sarah Ann Crutchley born 1879 Rugeley, Staffs. She was a rag and bone dealer in 1901. She was married to ? Elstone before she married Joseph Johnson. Thanks again.

I must go to bed now....have to be up early tomorrow....will look in later.