Daniel Colledge / College

[Tim O]

born London 1907 aprox, son of Thomas Colledge / College possible Romanie born Ireland? Spain? I can not locate either on the 1911 census or Thomas on the 1901 any help would be appreciated.
Thanks Tim O

[anamarja]

Tim, in the 1901 census there is this: Thomas Colledge, aged 22, boot cutter, born Bethnal Green, living at 27 Middleton St, in Bethnal Green registration district, with wife Carrie, aged 23, also born Bethnal Green, and son Thomas, aged 3, born Colchester, Essex. (RG13/0285/F55 page 108, Census records held by TNA, crown copyright)

[Tim O]

Sorry for the delay in replying have been waiting for more information from the friend whom I am trying to help. Much of what is known is hearsay. I have his Marriage cert which puts his birth as 1907 father Thomas Colledge a docker living? Married at St Phillips church Clerkenwell 19 Mar 1933.
Wife May Watson born 1909 both living at 30 Northampton Rd, Clerkenwell, London. farther Thomas Samuel Watson a printers cutter. I have traced Mays family back but the only birth for a Daniel Colledge / college in 1907 father is not Thomas. He is recorded as a builders labourer on marriage cert. Any help would be gratefully apreciated
Thanks Tim

[Kerrywood]

College Daniel Jun qtr 1907 Holborn vol 1a page 594

I think this person can be found in 1911 at RG14/1261 SN33, indexed as Daniel CALLAGE aged 3 (reference to record held by TNA).

There is no father present, but this may nevertheless be a starting-point.

Fathers' names on marriage certificates are not 100% reliable.

[Kerrywood]

Perhaps this 1901 below relates to the 1911 referred to above? (Unfortunately we are not allowed to post those 1911 details on the forum, for copyright reasons.)

1901 census
RG13/250 folio 11 page 13
10 Eagle Court, Clerkenwell
Thomas Sweetman Head M 42 Bricklayers Labr born London St Pancras
Emma Sweetman Wife M 37 French Polisher born London Pimlico
James Sweetman Son S 13 born London Clerkenwell
Charles Sweetman Son S 8 born London Clerkenwell
Louisa M Sweetman Daur 6 born London Clerkenwell
(record held by TNA, Crown copyright)

the only birth for a Daniel Colledge / college in 1907 father is not Thomas.

The 1907 Holborn birth index found above is the only one that seems likely, and the year is spot-on with what you say in post #1.

You say the father recorded for this birth is not Thomas. Has this certificate actually been purchased? Or was it requested with a reference-check that the father should be Thomas, and then not produced because the criteria were not met?

As mentioned above, fathers' names on marriage certificates are not always reliable. If by any chance Daniel was illegitimate, he may have invented a father's name for the purposes of the marriage, or given the name of some other relative instead. This was fairly common practice, as many of us can testify from our own research.

It's a long shot, but your friend might like to consider ordering this 1907 certificate, if he/she does not already have it, in the hope that something on it might fit with the 1911 or 1901 census data offered above.

I'm good at spending other people's money.

[Kerrywood]

Further to the above, as another idea, have a look in 1911 at ...

Thomas COLLEGE born 1859, living in Islington.
RG14/820 SN1 (reference to record held by TNA)

[Tim O]

Thank you Thank you witness on the Marriage cert are lillian and louisa Sweetman looks like Thomas and Emma changed thier name? had noticed the Thomas at Islington in an institution 1911 died 1913 as no father on 1911 will ask my friend to order cert its not my money either but the coincidence seems to strong with the Emma and Daniel Callage on the 1911
Many thanks Tim O

[Kerrywood]

witness on the Marriage cert are lillian and louisa Sweetman

Ah, that's good news. It looks like we could be on the right track then.

If so, hopefully the 1907 birth certificate will record Daniel's mother as Emma, with the former names of SWEETMAN and ASHWORTH (or at least one of those!).

Thomas Edward SWEETMAN married Emma ASHWORTH (father James ASHWORTH) on 26 Jan 1880 at St James the Great, Bethnal Green (London parish registers database). The timing of this marriage, and the number of SWEETMAN children born to it, seem to be a reasonable fit with the data stated in the 1911 for Emma and Daniel. Several SWEETMAN children were baptised at St Stephen Islington in 1891.

Emma is said in the census to be born Pimlico. This is probably her birth index record. St George Hanover Square covers Pimlico.

Births
Mar Qtr 1863
ASHWORTH Emma
St George Hanover Square vol 1a page 267

looks like Thomas and Emma changed thier name?

I'm not sure. It may be a different relationship, and a different Thomas? Thomas SWEETMAN is recorded as deceased in 1913 and 1915, when two of his children married at St Philip Clerkenwell.

I still wouldn't rule out the "widowed" Thomas COLLEGE who was in the Holborn Union Infirmary in 1911. He is a feasible age, has the right occupation and is from the same area.

There's a possible candidate for him in 1881 in Clerkenwell with his parents, at RG11/350 folio 24 page 42 (reference to record held by TNA).

There's also an army service record at TNA held under WO 97/2529, as Thomas COLLIDGE born Bermondsey Middlesex (sic), serving with the King's Royal Rifles 1881-1893. The address for his next of kin is a good match with the Clerkenwell census, despite the place of birth. That would explain why this Thomas is not found in 1891, when his family is at the same address (RG12/224 folio 116 page 65, reference to record held by TNA).

But I am running away. The above can only be speculation without the 1907 birth certificate. If your friend decides to order it, do come back and let us know what it says.

[Tim O]

Sorry closer examination of Marriage cert is William and Louisa not Lillian and Louisa must get my eyes checked. Yes it seems to all fit and there does not appear to be any Romany truth to the story will pass on the info and push for the birth cert I'm intrigued

[Tim O]

Can not find the sweetman children on the 1911 census?? or on free bmd yet they married at st Phillips clerkenwell! no death for Thomas Sweetman the holborn 1902 Jun quarter looks like an infant 0 years which would tie in with a birth in the same quarter.
Theory Thomas Sweetman, Thomas Colledge same person escaping creditors or similar institutionalized wife dead to protect her or to get help. Does not explain the Sweetman kids not showing on 1911 sorry I ramble will have to wait to see if the Daniel College birth cert reveals anything
I apreciate the help and your time.
Kind regards Tim