Smith family of Elvaston

[Blues Mark]

Has/is anyone tracing the Smith family of Elvaston, Derbyshire. I wondered if their was any sort of marriage index available as i am having trouble tracing the wives of William Smith who married Alice sometime after 1841 after his first wife Ursula had died. BMG may help i suppose? Ursula was his first wife from about 1810 but i cant find their marriage either. I have got the family as back as far as 1734 when Samuel son of George and Dorothy is born but cannot find the parents marriage either. i have checked the i.g.i. without success or had and the parish records some years ago but are their any other resources anyone can recomend to me.

[Neil Wilson]

You said you checked the Parish Records, but which ones, have you widened your search to the parishes around Elvaston?

[Blues Mark]

just Elvaston if i remember rightly...

[pottoka]

I presume that this is the right family in 1841, living in Elvaston:

SMITH, William - 50 - Ag Lab - born in Derbyshire
SMITH, Ursula - 50 - born out of county
SMITH, Ann - 20 - born in Derbyshire
SMITH, Jane - 20 - born in Derbyshire
SMITH, Allice - 12 - born in Derbyshire
SMITH, George - 9 - born in Derbyshire
WINFIELDALE, Mary - 20 - born out of county
STREET, Mary - 0 (7 months) - born in Derbyshire

Census ref: RG number: HO107; Piece: 188 Book/Folio: 14/8 Page: 11 (Image copyright TNA)

and in 1851:

SMITH, William - Head - Married - 61 - Ag Lab - Elvaston, Derbyshire
SMITH, Alice - Wife - Married - 63 - ???, Staffordshire
SMITH, Jane - Daughter - Unmarried - 32 - At Home - Elvaston, Derbyshire
SMITH, Julia - Grand Daughter - 4 - Elvaston, Derbyshire
SMITH, Thomas - Grand Son - 3 - Elvaston, Derbyshire

Census ref: RG number: HO107; Piece: 2140; Folio: 575; Page: 6 (Image copyright TNA)

[pottoka]

In 1861:

SMITH, William - Head - Married - 72 - Agricultural Labourer - Elvaston, Derbyshire
SMITH, Alice - Wife - Married - 75 - - Elvaston, Derbyshire
SMITH, Alice - Daughter - Unmarried - 31 - Factory Hand - Elvaston, Derbyshire

Census ref: RG09; Piece: 2490; Folio: 103; Page: 6 (Image copyright TNA)

In 1871, living in the Almshouses in Elvaston:

SMITH, William - Head - Widower - 83 - Labourer - Derbyshire, Elvaston

Census ref: RG10; Piece: 3553; Folio: 108; Page: 3 (Image copyright TNA)

[pottoka]

On freebmd, there are no deaths for an Ursula Smith in Shardlow between 1841 and 1851, nor a marriage for William with an Alice. Given that, in 1841, Ursula is marked as "born out of county" and that, in 1851, Alice is much of an age with Ursula and also born out of Derbyshire, in Staffordshire, would it be too much to believe that they are one and the same person?

There is also the fact that William and Ursula have a daughter called Alice, and, furthermore, that the town/village she is supposed to come from in 1851 doesn't exist!

In exactly the same area, I have an ancestor who put on the 1841 and 1851 Censuses that she was not from Derbyshire, but from Cordwell in Staffordshire. Cordwell is actually Caldwell or Cauldwell (try pronouncing it) and it is now in Derbyshire, but it was so near the border that it changed from time to time.

Could Ursula's village be one of these and phonetically spelt as well?

[pottoka]

Do you think that it is at all possible that Ursula came from Burton upon Trent in Staffordshire?

I know that you really need to stretch your imagination to see Burton upon Trent in what is written on the Census form, but, if it had been badly written to begin with ...

And there is actually method in my madness, as I have found Ursula and William's marriage! (keeping the best to the end, maybe, but I've only just managed it!)

On familysearch pilot, it gives the marriage in Burton upon Trent, Staffordshire, on 4th September 1809 of William Smith and Hursaler (sic) Winfieldale.

I'm afraid I can't find Ursula's baptism, but there are a family of Winfieldales in Burton at the end of the eighteenth century.

[Blues Mark]

thats great...thanks for your help and Cauldwell is often pronounced cordel locally. i live about a quarter of a mile away in Rosliston and know all about the boundary changes.Winfieldale is an unusual name.thanks again..

[Blues Mark]

is william living on his own in 1871?

[Blues Mark]

Could Hadon, staffs (1851 CENSUS) actually be Hatton, near Tutbury. In Derbyshire now but not too far from Burton.