Hibbert - Manchester, Salford (Lancs.)

[DianaCanada]

I have had this brick wall for many years and thought I would seek some help on knocking it down.
My direct paternal ancestor, Joseph Hibbert was b. ca 1799 in Lancashire. He died 7 Sep 1852, Salford, age 53. He was a dyer by occupation and this appears on all records I have found associated with him
Joseph had at least 2 children with his first wife, Ann, including my ancestor, William, b. ca Apr 1820 and christened at Manchester Cathedral as an infant. I assume, given Joseph's young age, that William was likely his first child. Ann died before his second marriage in 1829, but I have found no record online.
Joseph married a second time, at Manchester Cathedral, on 20 Jul 1829, to Ellen Clare. They had at least seven more children, and probably one or two others who died as babies. One of these children and one of the grandchildren of this marriage were later living with my William, so I was able to connect the families. The families moved back and forth between Salford and Hulme (South Manchester) for a couple of generations.
Interestingly, Joseph seemed to have witnessed his own death! The informant was Joseph Hibbert - I am guessing this is an error - both sons of his named Joseph died very young and the informant was probably another of his numerous sons.
My brick wall - I can find no suitable christening for Joseph ca 1798/99 and no suitable marriage to an Ann ca 1819/20.
Any suggestions welcomed.

[Raffaele]

What did he declare as his place of birth in 1851.
What did he declare on the 1841 census.

My thinking is as follows:-

He could have been a bit older than he stated. Not unusual when looking for a second wife.
He did die rather young even for those days.

Is it possible he and his first wife were from Ireland and married there?

I did find a Joseph Higgins and Ann marriage 1816 but in Finsbury. If dyers were a mobile trade then it could be them and they could have come from anywhere.

[DianaCanada]

Joseph was born in Lancashire according to the 1841 census, as was his second wife Ellen. Hibbert is fairly common in the Manchester area, so unless he changed his surname for other reasons, I assume the family had long roots in that area of England. It is possible he was illegitimate and not christened. Or christened under his birth name, and adopted another name later.

The 1841 census shows him as 40, but of course, has been rounded up or down. Joseph died of dysentry - perhaps working as a dyer for 30 years or so played havoc with his system! Have no idea what kind of chemicals he might have been exposed to.

Sections of Manchester were severely damaged for the 1851 census - he is found on a very damaged recovered sample has his birthplace obliterated (this is not on the *Anc site - the Manchester Family History Group attempted to do some restoration on the damaged portions).

[Geoffers]

What did he declare as his place of birth in 1851.

This is unfortunately one of the water damaged pieces of the 1851 Lancashire census. It has been transcribed by the Manchester and Lancashrie FHS and is available on the pay-per-view site 'findmypast' but the place of birth then is not clear.

[Lizzy9]

There's this marriage on the Familysearch beta site.

Joseph Hibbert to Ann Lees 14/11/1819, Parish Church of St Mary, Prestwich

[DianaCanada]

Thanks Lizzy9 - Prestwich isn't too far from Salford, according to Wikipedia, so this might be plausible. Diana.

[Mona]

The transcript is on LancashireOPC, not much more info, both of this parish, the witnesses were the same for all other marriages that day.

[DianaCanada]

Thanks for checking. There is a Joseph age 40, with young wife Sarah, 2 year old daughter Ann, living in Prestwich in 1841. Possible widower of Ann Lees - hard to prove.

[valg]

Record on Fam Search pilot-Ann Hibbert burial Manchester 16 Jan 1827-no spouse/age/parents listed.

[valg]

Looking at Williams baptism on IGI- there are 3 children listed for parents William Hibbert and Ann-William 1820-Eliza 1825 -Harriet 1824 all Manchester Cathedral, is Eliza a sibling to William? If so parents are noted as Joseph Hibbert and Ann Whittaker
Haven't found a marriage to Ann Whittaker.