Killed in Action WW1

[mfwebb]

I have a 2nd cousin twice removed who was killed in action during WW1. I know he is not a close ancestor but he is the only relative I know of who was killed in action and so I have decided to research him to add a story to my family history on-line.

My question is whether anyone knows of any other sources I could consult to find out more. This is what I have so far:-

I first found his name on the War Memorial in Houghton Conquest Parish Church – Fred C. Webb – during a visit in 1996 but I didn’t know at the time he was “mine”.

I have traced the families through the census records to prove our connection back to my 3 x great grandfather Jeremiah Webb (Fred C’s great grandfather). I have his parents marriage and his 7 sibling’s birth dates, all through the GRO indexes. The 1911 census confirms his parents had 8 children, all still living in 1911.

Frederick Charles Webb was born in 1892 in Houghton Conquest Bedfordshire and was killed in action 15 April 1918 in “France & Flanders”. There is no record of him being married. I have his details from the Roll of Honour for Bedfordshire; his commemoration on the Ploegsteert Memorial from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission; and his medal roll card.

I have recently spent a whole day checking the index of service records for every Webb and he is not there. I presume his is one of the 60% or more of service records which did not survive the fire after the bombing of the War Office in 1940.

I know he was in the 4th Battalion of the Lincolnshire Regiment and his memorial tells me he enlisted at Ampthill. As he was awarded the Territorial Forces Medal, as well as the Victory Medal and the 1914-18 War Medal, he would have been a member of the TF on the day War was declared, 4th August 1914. This was one of the criteria for being eligible for the TF Medal.

I am expecting delivery any day now of the book “History of the Lincolnshire Regiment 1914-1918” in the hope that this may give a clue as to his possible movements after he joined the Territorials and up the time of his death.

I am a little puzzled as to why he would enlist at Ampthill, Bedfordshire into the 4th Battalion of the Lincolnshire Regiment whose headquarters were at Lincoln Drill Hall.

During my 20 years of family history research I have not yet come across anyone who is researching my line of Webbs – the ones I have come across are younger researchers with whom I have been happy to share my research. I am currently checking the GRO indexes to try and trace any relatives of Fred C. Webb who may be alive in Bedfordshire.

Does anyone know of any other source I could look at that I may have missed?

I would be grateful for any advice or pointers into this, my first foray into researching military ancestors.

[Procat]

The Soldiers Died in The Great War CD has this to say about him:

Regiment Corps etc: Lincolnshire Regiment, Battalion: 4th, Name: Webb, Fred, Rank: Sergt, Number: 203202, Born: Houghton, Beds, Enlisted: Ampthill, Beds, Killed in Action: 15 April 1918, Theatre of War: France & Flanders

[mfwebb]

Thanks Doug. Although that was a new source to me, I have all the information it contains. I presume the Bedfordshire Roll of Honour for Houghton Conquest was compiled from that.

[Hugh Thompson]

Hi Malcolm, he doesn't appear to be listed in the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website.
Hugh.
(another Chet Atkins fan)

[Procat]

Hi Malcolm, he doesn't appear to be listed in the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website.
Hugh.
(another Chet Atkins fan)

Hi Hugh,

He is there.

[-tmm-]

I am a little puzzled as to why he would enlist at Ampthill, Bedfordshire into the 4th Battalion of the Lincolnshire Regiment whose headquarters were at Lincoln Drill Hall.

Although not black and white, you tended to find that early in the war (ie. 1914) people would sign up for their local regiments. Later on after battles had been fought and casualties gained, new recruits were put where they were needed most. The county that someone lived was rarely an indication of the regiment they would serve in. For example, my great grandfather (a Norfolk lad) enlisted in Cambridgeshire and joined the Suffolk Regiment.

[SueNSW]

His medal card shows that he initially went overseas as a Sergeant in the Leicestershire Regiment (33195 - which doesn't sound like a TF number) - and not before 1st January 1916 - so the enlistment at Ampthill is certainly 'interesting'

It might be worth a trip to the NA at Kew to inspect the actual medal rolls that might throw some more light on his career

Cheers
Sue

[SueNSW]

A bit more digging shows that E Company of the 5th Battalion Bedfordshire Regiment was the Territorial Force based at Ampthill from formation in 1908 and they were still there at least in February 1914.

It seems likely he may well have joined them and subsequently been transferred before service overseas - there is an incredibly well researched website - bedfordregiment.org.uk - might be worth contacting Steve Fuller whose labour of love it is to see if he has come across Fred

Cheers
Sue

[mfwebb]

His medal card shows that he initially went overseas as a Sergeant in the Leicestershire Regiment (33195 - which doesn't sound like a TF number) - and not before 1st January 1916 - so the enlistment at Ampthill is certainly 'interesting'

It might be worth a trip to the NA at Kew to inspect the actual medal rolls that might throw some more light on his career

Cheers
Sue

Hi Sue and many thanks for your interpretation of the details on the medal card.

The Service No. and Regiment recorded in the citations on his memorial at the CWG (and also on the Bedfordshire Roll of Honour) is 203202 4 Btn Lincolnshire Regiment. My research shows that this No. was a 4 btn Lincs Regiment Number (beginning with 20). The 5 Btn Lincs Regiment (the other Territorial Force prior to the outbreak of war) commenced with the numbers 24.

If he was a member of the Territorial Force well before the outbreak of WW1 (No. 203202), which seems likely, and was transferred to the regular Leicestershire Regiment (No 33195) and was already a sergeant by the time he embarked, then his career has become even more interesting!! His enlistment at Ampthill into the Lincolnshire TF becomes even more puzzling now I know from another response that the 5th btn Bedfordshire Regiment was a TF based at Ampthill from 1908.

My copy of "The History of the Lincolnshire Regiment 1914-1918" has now arrived.

Many thanks to everyone for their input. I shall keep digging.

[SueNSW]

Malcolm - what I believe is that he was a pre war Territorial (when he would have had a 4 digit service number) with the Bedfordshire Regiment - which would tie in with his enlistment in Ampthill - presumably in their E Company. This would have entitled him to the TF Medal

At some stage before he went overseas he was transferred to a battalion of the Leicestershire Regiment who he first went overseas with - after 1st Jan 1916 - as a Sergeant with the number 33195 The Medal Cards only record service overseas - which is why there is no mention of his earlier TF Regiment

At a later stage - probably after the renumbering of the Territorial Force in 1917 he transferred to the 4th Bn Lincolnshire Regiment - where he stayed until his death

You may be interested in downloading or viewing online the War Diary of 39 DIVISION, 118 INFANTRY BRIGADE who the 4th Bn Lincs served with from Feb to Nov 1918 from the National Archives. As it is already digitised - it will cost you the princely sum of GBP3.50 for 4 PDFs - (hundreds of pages) This should be the link

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/d...26UserType%3D0

Cheers
Sue