Help in identifying possible uniform/service

[Colin Rowledge]

I believe you mentioned that your wife's mother was a nurse during WW2. Whether people wore a uniform or not, I'm sure that all of us believe that every contribution was given with the hope that it was for the greater good of their fellow citizens.

Adele, the idea of a 'nurse' came from the symbol on her brest pocket, not from my wife. My wife never knew her mother, for obvious reason, spent 12 years in a convent in Cardiff and Swansea, until 1961 and her treatment after leaving the convent was what brought her to Canada and into the care of he Uncle.

Colin

[markmccormack]

Colin,

I asked a special friend for a professional opinion of the photo. She is a professional, and the following is her reply (I sent her an old photo of my Aunt's wedding at the same time, that is what she talks about in the first paragraph):

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Dear Mark

Thank you very much for the delightful photo. I take it the lady in the wrap pinner was a back room relative of importance preparing the wedding breakfast. I will let you know if I use it and I may well do so since it is a wonderful example of a wrap garment.

... [For What It's Worth] I don’t think this is a uniform that I recognise. It may though be a uniform common to some society at that time, but frankly the scallop shape front facing is something I would deem a little frivolous for a real uniform. The outfit has some military influence as did all fashion of that timeframe. A lot of fashion of the era was cut on military lines and on looking more closely this almost has a home-made look to it . Many women were quite capable of making coats and suits so I suspect this has been made from sourced army/military material or even dyed army blankets. It might I suppose be some kind of voluntary uniform but I think its just functional utility clothing.

The hat is rather similar to the pancake hat my mother wore in 1947 at a wedding in South Wales UK - She told me the hat slipped to one side just as the photo was taken. It should have been perched higher up. The image is on this page if you wish to read about it in context.

One more thought I will send your link to my mother in law who is in her 90s. She is from the same area so may know if it is a uniform especially as she worked in a hospital. There is a chance it may be some form of Women’s Institute or local WRVS substitute garment too. Its also worth remembering that even young women dressed very formally then especially for a formal photo like this one.

Pauline

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[markmccormack]

The image is on this page if you wish to read about it in context.

Sorry, forgot the urls

http://www.fashion-era.com/images/1914-1950/madapk.jpg

http://
www.
fashion-era.com/utility_clothing.htm

[bibliojunkie]

Colin, do you have a date for this photograph? The hat reminds me of the Kangol berets or navy style caps with wide headbands my aunties used to wear. It is unusual to see a badge (or brooch) worn on a breast pocket. Just remembered, Brownies and Guides leaders wore badges on their top pockets.

In her hands, mother-in-law is holding gauntlets rather than gloves. They look like the type motorcycle riders or police officers on point duty used to wear. Other possibilities, some sort of unofficial/volunteer/local variation uniform, a chauffeuse, clippie?

Not much help I’m afraid so I’ll stop rambling.

Ali

[Colin Rowledge]

Colin, do you have a date for this photograph? The hat reminds me of the Kangol berets or navy style caps with wide headbands my aunties used to wear. It is unusual to see a badge (or brooch) worn on a breast pocket. Just remembered, Brownies and Guides leaders wore badges on their top pockets.

In her hands, mother-in-law is holding gauntlets rather than gloves. They look like the type motorcycle riders or police officers on point duty used to wear. Other possibilities, some sort of unofficial/volunteer/local variation uniform, a chauffeuse, clippie?

Not much help I’m afraid so I’ll stop rambling.

Ali

Hi Ali - thanks for your interest.

Here is the history of the photoggraph. It was taken after the birthof the 1st child [December 1940] and before the birth of the 2nd child [Patriicia - March 1944]. The lady does not show any signs of either having given birth or pregnant, so I would judge the earliest date would be March 1941 and no later than May 1943.

When Patricia left for the U.S. in 1962 or so she took the photograph with her. When she visited us [for my wedding in 1972] she brought 2 smaller copies for my wife and her other sister [Valerie]. When Pat. died in Phoenix on June 23, 2002, my wife and Valerie attended her funeral. Later in the week she and Valerie were asked to take what personal effects of Pat.'s each would like and my wife acquired the large photograph that is scanned above.

The indication about the 'gloves or gauntlets' may shed some light on her activities during the period in question.

Hope the above is of assistance.

Colin

[hepzibah]

i havent read all of each previous replies, so apologise if i am repeating what anyone else has said, or issue now resolved. this doesn't look like a uniform to me, and the brooch actually looks to me as if it is the head and shoulders of a dog ( alsation/ g.s.d.) made to appear as if the dog is coming out of a circlular frame.. so to my mind this could be a decorative brooch in a time when pooches were fashionable in art and design. or, could it be that she was involved with dogs in a working capacity- sniffer dogs, or dogs for the blind, or security work. just a thought.

[hepzibah]

on closer inspection, it is clear that the jacket has a center fastening that has a scallopped edge, something that a uniform would never have. it is also quite obvious to me that the brooch is a gsd puppy which has it front paws resting on the bottom edge of the brooch. could it be that she was simply a dog lover, or perhaps she was involved with dogs, as i said, in a working capacity, even as a breeder or with a dog charity such as the rspca; i believe i have read that many gsds were killed or abandoned due to misplaced patriotic tendancies. this is also when the name of the breed- german shepherd dog, was changed to alsation- much more user friendly at that time! perhaps she supported the breed and helped to find unwanted pets, new homes?

[markmccormack]

it is also quite obvious to me that the brooch is a gsd puppy which has it front paws resting on the bottom edge of the brooch.

I have to agree with the dog brooch comment. I have looked at sweetheart brooches for the time period and dog brooches. I have reviewed the high quality scan. I have found one that closely resembles what I had imagined. Looks pretty close, and may even give an idea of what colors she may have been wearing. The photo and a great description of dog brooches at the time can be found at:

decolish.com/ScottieDogs.html (put http://www. in front)

Something like this:


Also, the hair cut is apparently a Marcel wave, the hat may be a "halo hat" - but would not have been worn like that if it was a service uniform. Also, there is a question of whether any service organization wore light gloves - I have been told that they would not.

[Colin Rowledge]

From the responses above [for which my wife was very pleased with], she has once again asked my assistance infinding out a bit more about her mum. Based upon the request below, maybe the title of the thread and location of same, it may need to be amended?. This I will leave to others.

Her name was Josephine Patricia Darrer. She was born on March 20, 1919 in Belfast, Northern Ireland at Haypark Cottages. She was the last child of Ferdinand and Mary Darrer. At the time of her birth, she had 4 surviving siblings. Her father was an Austrian who was interned at a camp on the Isle of Man during W.W.1 and that Josephine Patricia was conceived during a conjugal visit that was allowed.

Q. #1 Gowing up in Belfast in the 1920's and the 1930's as the daughter of an internee, what sort of life did she have?


Josphine Patricia married Ronald James Jones on December 22, 1938 at Newtownbreda, Knockbreda, Co. Down. Her marriage certificate says she was of full age - actually she was just 19. Her 1st child was born in Swansea on December 4, 1940. This was a son. Later she had 3 daughters - born 1944, 1945 and 1948. Josephine Patricia died age 30 on November 29, 1949.

Shortly after her death, Ronald James Jones arranged for his 3 daughters to be placed in a Convent. It is not necessary to research the lives of the girls while there.

In reading the above posts, it would appear that during the 2nd W.W., Josephine Patricia had to occupy her time while her husband was away on active service. None of the descendants of Josephine's siblings [that we have made contact with] have any knowledge of her life after marriage.

Q. #2. What did she do during the 1940's?


As my wife was only 18months old when her mother died and her 2 sisters were also quite young, none of them can shed any light on this subject. Can anyone help? Answers on this forum, or by private message or email would be most appreciated.

Colin

[Richard1955]

Great photos Colin and good job Mark.
Colin.
Can I have your mother's mother's name, place and date of birth.