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  1. #1
    meleanor
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    Default Smuggling in Suffolk @ 1820,Charles Lee Frost

    I have an ancestor, Charles Lee born March 4, 1802 in Ipswich or Woodbridge, Suffolk. Written family history says he was involved in smuggling and had to change his name to his mother's maiden name of Frost and that this was very expensive to do. Any idea of, if or how, to check this out. I do have his marriage record to Mary Cramp in 1843 and IGI lists his name as Charles Lee or Frost which somewhat corroborates the story. I have his siblings names if needed. Would love suggestions, Meli

  2. #2
    MarkJ
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    Default

    Changing your name was - and still is - totally free, although if you need legal documents issuing in your new name (passports, driving licence etc) it can involve a small expense (the so called "deed poll" for example)

    Anyone can decide to call themselves by whatever name they wish (within certain restrictions ) as long as there is no intent to commit a crime (e.g fraud).

    Mark

  3. #3
    meleanor
    Guest

    Default Charles Lee or Frost b. 1802 of Ipswich

    I am looking for my UK family from the US. Written family history (which so far has been right on) says that Charles Lee was born March 4, 1802 in Ipswich of Woodbridge, Suffolk. He was involved in smuggling and had to pay to have his name changed to Frost which was his mother's maiden name. His sblings were William, James, John, Hannah, Mary, Lydia, Ann and Sarah. I have his marriage record to Mary Cramp in 1843 and there he states his father's name as John Frost. His father is reputed to have been a twin. He raised a family in Kent, came to the US in 1871. Where do I, or do I, confirm any of this.
    Thanks for any ideas. Meli

  4. #4
    RonOne
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by meleanor View Post
    I do have his marriage record to Mary Cramp in 1843 and IGI lists his name as Charles Lee or Frost which somewhat corroborates the story.
    Hi Meli,

    Ive just looked at this marriage record on the IGI and it is a submitted entry (Always treat these with caution).

    Do you have a marriage certificate? The reason I'm asking is that I cannot find any reference on FreeBMD for this 1843 marriage.

    The closest marriage I can find for these names is:

    Marriages Sep 1845
    Frost Charles - St Saviour - Vol 4 - Page 545
    And on the same page:
    Cramp Mary - St Saviour - Vol 4 - Page 545
    Note: This is not a definite marriage of this couple, there are 4 males and 4 females with this reference.

    Maybe someone else could check that I'm not missing something.

  5. #5
    Procat
    Guest

    Default

    Hi Meli,

    I have merged your thread originally under Black Sheep into the one you started under Suffolk County Wide as they are basically the same query (and the Suffolk one has more information in it). The reason for the merge is that if you have the same query in two places the research can get duplicated.

  6. #6
    Brick wall demolition expert!
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronone View Post
    The closest marriage I can find for these names is:

    Marriages Sep 1845
    Frost Charles - St Saviour - Vol 4 - Page 545
    And on the same page:
    Cramp Mary - St Saviour - Vol 4 - Page 545
    Note: This is not a definite marriage of this couple, there are 4 males and 4 females with this reference.

    Maybe someone else could check that I'm not missing something.
    There is a record of their Banns at St Saviour on the Ancestry London Marriages database. Charles Frost & Mary Cramp, bachelor & spinster of this parish, banns published on June 15, 22, 29, 1845. Notation in the margin states that they married 1 Jul 1845

  7. #7
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdeleE View Post
    There is a record of their Banns at St Saviour on the Ancestry London Marriages database. Charles Frost & Mary Cramp, bachelor & spinster of this parish, banns published on June 15, 22, 29, 1845. Notation in the margin states that they married 1 Jul 1845
    As Adele says, the marriage was on 1 July 1845 at St Saviour Southwark. (Charles' surname has been misindexed by Ancestry as FRAST)

    St Saviour Southwark
    1 July 1845
    Charles Frost, full age, bachelor, farmer, residing at Otford Kent*, father John Frost, farmer
    Mary Cramp, full age, spinster, residing at Otford Kent, father Joseph Cramp, farmer
    After banns, both signed
    Witnesses - Edward Cramp, Frederick Drewett

    * Otford is near Sevenoaks

    There is no mention of the surname LEE in the marriage register.

    Quote Originally Posted by meleanor View Post
    I do have his marriage record to Mary Cramp in 1843 and IGI lists his name as Charles Lee or Frost which somewhat corroborates the story
    Some confusion here, I think?

    The IGI entry is a patron submission, not an extracted record, and needs to be treated with extreme caution. This entry says the marriage was at Sevenoaks, and no church is mentioned. It is not corroborated by the full GRO marriage index for this quarter of 1843.
    Last edited by Kerrywood; 05-06-2010 at 12:31 PM. Reason: now decided it's Otford!

  8. #8
    Brick wall demolition expert!
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    The marriage date may have been adjusted in the family history to account for the birth of the first daughter in 1844:

    Name: Lydia Mary __Ost Cramp (I read Frost on the image of the registration index page)
    Year: 1844
    Quarter: Mar
    District: Sevenoaks
    County: Kent
    Volume: 5
    Page: 469

  9. #9
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdeleE View Post
    The marriage date may have been adjusted in the family history to account for the birth of the first daughter in 1844:

    Name: Lydia Mary __Ost Cramp (I read Frost on the image of the registration index page)
    Year: 1844
    Quarter: Mar
    District: Sevenoaks
    County: Kent
    Volume: 5
    Page: 469
    Sound thinking, Adele, and I agree with your reading of the GRO births index.

  10. #10
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    I've searched the Ipswich Journal for you (online) and can't find any reference to smuggling associated with this man's name (Charles LEE or FROST). However, the OCR scanning is not 100% accurate, and it's possible that not every issue has been uploaded.

    If he was actually charged with smuggling, and if there was a court case, you would expect an entry for him in the Criminal Registers (HO 27), but he's not found there. That doesn't prove or disprove anything, as he may have been involved with smuggling but not actually charged with any offence. Or, of course, he may have used another name.

    I've now seen your recent posts on another forum, where you're suggesting that FROST was the maiden name of Charles' mother, and that Charles later emigrated to the US.

    To help us help you, can you please share with us all the information you have on this man?

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