Where Would a Shoemaker learn his trade?

[Tierneylass]

Hi

can anyone help me? My grandfatherJohn Tierney born c1858 liverpool? in the 1901 census and thereafter is a shoemaker journeyman living in Hulme Manchester and apparently later had a cobbler premises in Chorlton on Medlock. I cannot trace him or any family before 1901 so i got to thinking where would he have learnt this trade? Perhaps that would help me track him down? Also how would i be able to check where this cobblers was...it must have been at least up to the 1930's as his grandchild recalls it?

any help appreciated
tierneylass

[Geoffers]

Welcome to the B-G forums

My grandfatherJohn Tierney born c1858 liverpool? in the 1901 census and thereafter is a shoemaker journeyman living in Hulme Manchester and apparently later had a cobbler premises in Chorlton on Medlock. I cannot trace him or any family before 1901

Although it is recorded that he was born in Liverpool, I wouldn't be surprised if he had in fact been born in Ireland and moved to Liverpool as a child (or if his parents were from Ireland).

I notice that the 1911 census RG14/23902 SN123 has him married for 11 years - have you been able to find a marriage certificate for him? (to give father's name and occupation)

If not, the 1911 census has a brother-in-law Thomas CARNEY, it appears that he may have married Mary TIERNEY at Liverpool in Sept qtr 1897.

The 1901 census RG13/3700 f71 p14 has a brother Sam born 1876-ish married to Mary E. Again his marriage certificate may help if you cannot find John's father. Sam appears to have married in West Derby March qtr 1899 (Sam may appear in 1891 in RG12/3005 f15a p25 as a lodger with a CARNEY family).

The father's name and occupation may help to locate your chap in earlier census returns.

Have you tried variant spellings of TIERNEY?

Although not conclusive (too many Tierneys to be sure) the 1871 census has a John Tierney with a sister Mary at RG10/3798 f113 p13 in West Derby.

(References to census in care of TNA).

i got to thinking where would he have learnt this trade?

Probably another shoe/bootmaker - but records of this may not survive.

Also how would i be able to check where this cobblers was...it must have been at least up to the 1930's as his grandchild recalls it?

Does he appear in any directory as a shoemaker/cobbler? Did he leave a will? Did he remain at the address from the 1911 census?

[Tierneylass]

Hi

thanks for the advice I had sent for the marriage of Mary Elizabeth and Samuel for some help in locating things but have not got much further....
Mary Scarlett nee Hagan widow formerly married to Matthew Scarlett and daughter of Thomas Hagan
Her address at time of Marriage 16 Acton St liverpool
Samuel son of Michael Tierney 6 Acton St Liverpool
marriage took place St Anne R.C. Edge Hill Liverpool

interesting is the following
Witnesses Thomas and Martha Kearney.....6 Acton Street also

now Martha was formerly Tierney and my first choice of sister for my John as the children ...namely Elizabeth perfectly match the Elizabeth in my tree... especially as Sam Tilney age 15 is residing with them in one of census! ....except the following....
The lady who has Martha in her tree also has told me that she feels Thomas was dead before 1911 and also Martha's marriage cert says father John Tierney? So what can i do next? I hope the lady will forward me the info from the cert to save me sending for it again? i am seeing Tierneys in my sleep as i have looked at that many in census!!

The pos birth cert i sent for is a John Tierney mother Ellen and father John!
arghhh
thanks tierneylass

[Geoffers]

thanks for the advice I had sent for the marriage of Mary Elizabeth and Samuel........
Samuel son of Michael Tierney 6 Acton St Liverpool

Excellent. This then seems to suggest that the 1871 census entry found is (possibly) your chap:

RG10/3798 f113 p13
(census in care of TNA)
114 Darnely Street, Toxteth Park, Liverpool
Michel TIERNEY, hd, mar, 40, labourer, bn Ireland
Mary Tierney, wf, mar, 36, housekeeper, bn Ireland
Margret Tierney, dau, unm 16, rope spinner, bn Liverpool
John Tierney, son, 14, scholar, bn Liverpool
Elizabeth Tierney, dau, 12, Oakum picker, bn Liverpool
Mary Ann Tierney, dau, 10, scholar, bn Liverpool
Catherine Tierney, dau, 8, scholar, bn Liverpool
Daniel Tierney, son, 5, scholar, bn Liverpool


IF that is the right family, then the parents appear to be recorded at RG11/3631 f108 p25 in 1881.

It might be worth having a browse around and see if you can pick up any of the family members from 1871 in any other census and if there is any possible obvious conenction to your John in the 1901 census

[Tierneylass]

Hi

Have managed to make a little bit of progress finally but i could still do with some input.
Martha Tierney married to Thomas Carney Acton Street Liverpool with Samuel aged 15 living with them. Martha's birth cert contradicts marriage cert as it gives her father as Michael! Mother Bridget nee Fitzpatrick.
Someone found a Bridget Furney widow hemp spinner living at 12 springfield rd/Ct West Derby with the following family
John Son aged 22 BOOT/SHOEMAKER
Martha aged 19 Hemp spinner
Mary aged 16 Hemp spinner
Samuel aged 5 sholar

So now i know that John was still single in 1881 and that he was allready a shoemaker....so is there anyway I could find out more information knowing this much finally?

thanks

[Keyboard86]

Hi

Have managed to make a little bit of progress finally but i could still do with some input.
Martha Tierney married to Thomas Carney Acton Street Liverpool with Samuel aged 15 living with them. Martha's birth cert contradicts marriage cert as it gives her father as Michael! Mother Bridget nee Fitzpatrick.
Someone found a Bridget Furney widow hemp spinner living at 12 springfield rd/Ct West Derby with the following family
John Son aged 22 BOOT/SHOEMAKER
Martha aged 19 Hemp spinner
Mary aged 16 Hemp spinner
Samuel aged 5 sholar

So now i know that John was still single in 1881 and that he was allready a shoemaker....so is there anyway I could find out more information knowing this much finally?

thanks

Hi if you believe the above census return is correct then on the 1871 John is not with Bridget and his siblings:-

1871 census

Bridget Tierney Widow aged 28 born Ireland
Martha aged 9 born West Derby
Mary aged 6 born West Derby

They are lodgers with the Elliott family at Springfield Street West Derby

Census ref RG10/3850/53/12

Keyboard86

[Keyboard86]

Hi

Have managed to make a little bit of progress finally but i could still do with some input.
Martha Tierney married to Thomas Carney Acton Street Liverpool with Samuel aged 15 living with them. Martha's birth cert contradicts marriage cert as it gives her father as Michael! Mother Bridget nee Fitzpatrick.
Someone found a Bridget Furney widow hemp spinner living at 12 springfield rd/Ct West Derby with the following family
John Son aged 22 BOOT/SHOEMAKER
Martha aged 19 Hemp spinner
Mary aged 16 Hemp spinner
Samuel aged 5 sholar

So now i know that John was still single in 1881 and that he was allready a shoemaker....so is there anyway I could find out more information knowing this much finally?

thanks

If Bridget is a Widow on the 1871, who is the father of Sam?
Can you find a birth?
Keyboard86

[Keyboard86]

Hi

Have managed to make a little bit of progress finally but i could still do with some input.
Martha Tierney married to Thomas Carney Acton Street Liverpool with Samuel aged 15 living with them. Martha's birth cert contradicts marriage cert as it gives her father as Michael! Mother Bridget nee Fitzpatrick.
Someone found a Bridget Furney widow hemp spinner living at 12 springfield rd/Ct West Derby with the following family
John Son aged 22 BOOT/SHOEMAKER
Martha aged 19 Hemp spinner
Mary aged 16 Hemp spinner
Samuel aged 5 sholar

So now i know that John was still single in 1881 and that he was allready a shoemaker....so is there anyway I could find out more information knowing this much finally?

thanks

Hi to all, can someone please post the 1891 to show the relationship of Sam to Mary Carney?
Keyboard86