NZ certificate query.

[Barmouth]

Hi, hope this is the right place, apologies if not.
In a marriage cert I have acquired from NZ - Jacob Marshall b. 1866 in Hayfield England marriage to Catherine Bond in Otuhuhu? 1891 - it lists his father as Jacob Marshall occupation 'settler' does this mean that Jacob Snr went out to NZ too?
As JM snr was born in 1814 also in Hayfield, If he did travel out there with JM jnr in 1885 At my reckoning this would make him 71??

I am unable to find any record of JM Snr death in NZ but it doesn't state deceased on his son's wed' cert in the 1891. Would it normally state if the parent was deceased?

I am confused, I have been unable to find either Jacob on passenger lists to date, though I am trawling through the sites and I have found a death in Hayfield 1866 for a Jacob Marshall born 1814.
I would be grateful for your advice, whatever it is. Thank you in advance.

Linda

[Flossy]

Seems confusing.. Perhaps when the Registrar asked for 'occupation' JM jnr. thought he meant his own occupation rather than that of his father; or may be the Registrar misheard what was said, or just 'assumed' the father was there. Hope somebody with better skills/knowledge can throw some light on it for you.

Flos

[gasser]

It would seem possible that your JM sr. had died in 1866 - a quick search shows him alive in 1861 census but not found 1871. In free BMD there is a Jacob Marshall born Jun 1/4 1865 vol 76 pg 648 reg Hayfield and in 1871 a Jacob Marshall, born 1865 Hayfield, is found living in Ardwick Chorlton area of Manchester. In 1881 he is not found.
HTH

[christanel]

[QUOTE=Barmouth;354987]
In a marriage cert I have acquired from NZ - Jacob Marshall b. 1866 in Hayfield England marriage to Catherine Bond in Otuhuhu? 1891 - it lists his father as Jacob Marshall occupation 'settler' does this mean that Jacob Snr went out to NZ too?

Jacob jnr and Catherine's ages?

As JM snr was born in 1814 also in Hayfield, If he did travel out there with JM jnr in 1885 At my reckoning this would make him 71??

Do you have Jacob jnr in censuses? Can we have references?

I am unable to find any record of JM Snr death in NZ but it doesn't state deceased on his son's wed' cert in the 1891. Would it normally state if the parent was deceased?

Sometimes it said deceased sometimes not. Either way it need not have been true.

I am confused, I have been unable to find either Jacob on passenger lists to date, though I am trawling through the sites and I have found a death in Hayfield 1866 for a Jacob Marshall born 1814.

If you can't find passenger records how do you know they went to NZ in 1885?

Assuming that Jacob jnr went to NZ in 1885 then this is the only Jacob born Hayfield Derbyshire in the 1881 census and his parents are Joseph and Sarah. RG11; Piece: 3462; Folio: 11; Page: 15 Copy right TNA

No answers just questions
Christina

[Barmouth]

[QUOTE=christanel;355016]

In a marriage cert I have acquired from NZ - Jacob Marshall b. 1866 in Hayfield England marriage to Catherine Bond in Otuhuhu? 1891 - it lists his father as Jacob Marshall occupation 'settler' does this mean that Jacob Snr went out to NZ too?

Jacob jnr and Catherine's ages?

As JM snr was born in 1814 also in Hayfield, If he did travel out there with JM jnr in 1885 At my reckoning this would make him 71??

Do you have Jacob jnr in censuses? Can we have references?

I am unable to find any record of JM Snr death in NZ but it doesn't state deceased on his son's wed' cert in the 1891. Would it normally state if the parent was deceased?

Sometimes it said deceased sometimes not. Either way it need not have been true.

I am confused, I have been unable to find either Jacob on passenger lists to date, though I am trawling through the sites and I have found a death in Hayfield 1866 for a Jacob Marshall born 1814.

If you can't find passenger records how do you know they went to NZ in 1885?

Assuming that Jacob jnr went to NZ in 1885 then this is the only Jacob born Hayfield Derbyshire in the 1881 census and his parents are Joseph and Sarah. RG11; Piece: 3462; Folio: 11; Page: 15 Copy right TNA

No answers just questions
Christina

Hi Christina,
On the marriage cert Catherine is aged 22 and Jacob is aged 24, it states his father was Jacob Marshall 'settler' his mother was Margaret Marshall maiden name Jones Born in Denbeighshire (Wales)

In the 1871 census Jacob aged 6 is with his mother who is now Hamp/Hemp Margaret, -no record of her remarrying that I have found - and his older brother Stephen 17 at 22, Robert st in Ardwick Manchester. His birth place actually says Hebefield but that is wrong, it's Hayfield

The birth of a Jacob Marshall is recorded Q2 1865 in Hayfield Derbs.

I also have Jacob Jnr's death certificate in 1940, it states he had been in NZ 55yrs and gives his place of birth as Hayfield England.

Of course he could have left England earlier and travelled elsewhere prior to settling in New Zealand, in fact I cannot locate him for certain in the 1881 census.
There is a Jacob Marshall 'boarder' with a family of that name in Yorkshire but the birth place is wrong and I cannot say it is him with any certainty so it is possible that he left England earlier.

With regard to passenger lists I have started with the earliest ones as I tought there may have been someone gone out before him and that was where he went to but I really dont know.

So he had been in NZ 55 years when he died so that makes his emigration from here around 1865 I think.


Please tell me how to reference records etc.

I am most grateful for your time and any suggestions you may have.

Regards
linda

[David Tuson]

Have you tried the Passenger Lists on the New Zealand Yesteryears web site that AISLIN posted on the NZ Genealogy Forum some time back?

The posting read..................................

I'm going to put this here for lack of a better home. Tripped over this in my travels. Some passenger lists and interesting shipboard diaries. Includes search function.

[christanel]

Hello Linda
The death for Jacob snr in 1866 (as found by gasser) seems very likely to be your Jacob's father. The ages, name and birth place match.

To use census reference numbers you need to record the book, piece, folio and page numbers. These can be found under the household transcripts on both ancestry and FMP. I don't know about other sites. All the information given in a posting must be written out by you, not copied and pasted and you are not allowed to give the GSU number.
However you must make reference to the fact that the record copy right is held by The National Archives - TNA.
Do you know the coraweb.com.au site? It seems to have a lot of info for those looking at NZ genealogy.

Like you I thought that Jacob could have entered NZ from a country other than UK but I haven't found anything yet.

I have to leave this for a while.
Christina

[daleaway]

The location of the marriage was probably Otahuhu, a district of Auckland city.

I can imagine a registrar filling in "settler" as a catchall description, assuming his father was also in New Zealand. It was often used when nothing else was known.

On the other hand, some settlers took the opportunity of being in a new country to rewrite their history, and as someone else said, not everything you read on an official document can be believed. Some of mine lied like flatfish - age, origin, status - you name it!

Otahuhu Cemetery has searchable online records, if that is useful.

Dale in New Zealand

[Barmouth]

[QUOTE=Barmouth;355060]

Hi Christina,
On the marriage cert Catherine is aged 22 and Jacob is aged 24, it states his father was Jacob Marshall 'settler' his mother was Margaret Marshall maiden name Jones Born in Denbeighshire (Wales)

In the 1871 census Jacob aged 6 is with his mother who is now Hamp/Hemp Margaret, -no record of her remarrying that I have found - and his older brother Stephen 17 at 22, Robert st in Ardwick Manchester. His birth place actually says Hebefield but that is wrong, it's Hayfield

The birth of a Jacob Marshall is recorded Q2 1865 in Hayfield Derbs.

I also have Jacob Jnr's death certificate in 1940, it states he had been in NZ 55yrs and gives his place of birth as Hayfield England.

Of course he could have left England earlier and travelled elsewhere prior to settling in New Zealand, in fact I cannot locate him for certain in the 1881 census.
There is a Jacob Marshall 'boarder' with a family of that name in Yorkshire but the birth place is wrong and I cannot say it is him with any certainty so it is possible that he left England earlier.

With regard to passenger lists I have started with the earliest ones as I tought there may have been someone gone out before him and that was where he went to but I really dont know.

So he had been in NZ 55 years when he died so that makes his emigration from here around 1865 I think.


Please tell me how to reference records etc.

I am most grateful for your time and any suggestions you may have.

Regards
linda

Apologies - re last paragraph, that should have read Had been in NZ 55 years when he died so that makes his emigration date 1885 (not 1865)
Linda

[christanel]

[QUOTE=Barmouth;355235]

Apologies - re last paragraph, that should have read Had been in NZ 55 years when he died so that makes his emigration date 1885 (not 1865)
Linda

No worries Linda I had picked up the typo. Wish I had also picked up some info for you but nothing so far. Mind you the last couple of days have been a bit busy.
I will try again in the morning.
Christina