Joseph Godfrey

[JAP1]

Hello Elma,

The question might be asked - who was Elizabeth GODFREY?

Well, it seems virtually certain that the Elizabeth GODFREY who married your Joseph GODFREY (in 1882?) was indeed - as Sandyhall has so very carefully worked through - the daughter of Lydia GODFREY and thus sister of the George GODFREY you mention.

As Sandyhall has posted, this Elizabeth GODFREY (in Street, b Street) was with Lydia (as unmarried daughter) in 1851 and (still as daughter, still with the surname GODFREY, but now married with two children) in 1861.
In 1871, Elizabeth GODFREY was still in Street but with her husband Charles GODFREY and the same two children (plus a few more) - both Charles and Elizabeth born Street.
And, as Sandyhall has posted, there is an 1856 marriage of a Charles GODFREY and an Elizabeth GODFREY.

Interestingly, in 1871, Charles GODFREY (53) is a Greenwich Pensioner.
And his records too are in the National Archives.
He is probably the Charles GODFREY death in Wells (which includes Street) in Jun qtr 1872, age 52.

Regards,

JAP
PS: Two things which could be of interest:
a) do you have the marriage reference for George GODFREY?
b) assuming that the 1881 census is correct in labelling Elizabeth GODFREY, Housekeeper, as your Joseph GODFREY's Cousin, I wonder how that relationship works out (though perhaps all GODFREYs in Street were related!).

[JAP1]

janbooth posted the marriage of Joseph GODFREY & Sarah RATCLIFF in 1869.

And also posted the 1872 baptism of their son Arthur Charles Henry (he is in the 1881 census as ACH aged 8).

Sarah's burial is in the London Parish Records.
- Sarah GODFREY, age 42, address Hope Inn Shepperton, buried 10 Feb 1880.

This could well explain why Joseph GODFREY's widowed cousin, Elizabeth GODFREY (presumably Elizabeth GODFREY nee GODFREY, widow of Charles GODFREY), appears in 1881 as Housekeeper to Joseph i.e. to help out with care of Joseph and his young son Arthur after the untimely death of Sarah.

And then the widowed Joseph & his widowed cousin Elizabeth married - perhaps for convenience, perhaps for the sake of respectability, or perhaps they became fond of each other, or a mixture or whatever ...

JAP

[JAP1]

Elma, Like you I'm flummoxed by this.

First a quick question. In your original post, you suggested that Joseph's second wife was "Mary Stratton". May I ask the source of that name?

Th puzzling burial is:
St Thomas Woolwich Kent
Catherine GODFREY, 29 Jul 1863, aged 41, address Kidd St

And we know that the baptisms of the last two (of four) children of Joseph & Mary Ann - 1859 and 1862 - had the address as Kidd St.

Presumably this death would have had to have been registered in the Sept qtr 1863. And yes - there is the death of a Catherine GODFREY, Greenwich (which included Woolwich) in that quarter (and, jumping ahead of myself here, no appropriate death of a Mary Ann GODFREY).

As you suggest, were Mary Ann and Catherine one and the same person?

Who knows! And, if so, why the name change and then recording as Catherine after her death. It truly is a puzzle.

One point in favour might be that they were similar ages - Catherine 28 in the Leeds Yorkshire 1851 census; Mary Ann 37 in the Woolwich 1861 census.
And had the same birthplace - Catherine (squashed in at the bottom of the page) as Devonport Stoke (transcribed by Ancestry as Stoterl) in 1851 in Leeds; Mary A as Devon Stoke in 1861 in Woolwich.

A point against might be the long gap between Catherine Jane Lavinia in 1848, parents Joseph & Catherine; then William Alfred Boscawen in 1854, parents Joseph & Mary Ann. But there could be all sorts of explanations for that including that Joseph was away with the marines ...

Perhaps birth certs of Catherine Jane Lavinia Godfrey 1848, and of one of the Mary Ann children (perhaps the wonderfully named William Alfred Boscowen GODFREY 1854 - it's Boscowen on FreeBMD) would be the only way to solve (or at least throw a bit more light - or more confusion on) this by revealing the mother's maiden surname.

Otherwise ...

Good luck,

JAP

[Elma]

Jap
Thankyou so much I see things clearer now or at least I am more hopeful.
I thought I had this Godfrey family nailed!

I have just this morning sent for the marrages of
1. Charles Godfrey and ? Elizabeth Godfrey 1856
2.Joseph Godfrey and Elizabeth Godfrey 1882
Also the birth certificates of
1. Catherine Jane Lavina daughter of Catherine and Joseph Godfrey
2.William Alfred Boscawen son of Joseph and Mary Ann Godfrey
as you suggested.

I really did not have a picture of Joseph at all. I knew my G-G Grandfathers sister had Joseph illetimately in 1822 in Street. His fate and that of his mother Ann Godfrey born 1802 also in Street was unknown. Until that is I found the 1881 census for Elizabeth Godfrey in Shepperton. It was very fortunate that the census actually recorded Elizabeth as cousin to Joseph so that got me interested.
Elizabeth who I am now trying to re look at, I always assumed (bad move) to be the daughter in law of Lydia and George Godfrey. A wife of son Charles born 1816.
Elizabeth had a son William Henry Godfrey (Bap 1864. Street, son of Charles and Elizabeth Godfrey). William Henry enlisted in the Royal Artillery Corps Woolwich in 1880. Shepperton is given as his address on army papers, death 1888. The connections are all there I am so grateful for all the new information and for helping me see some things more clearly although I clearly have a lot of work to do. I have also sent for the marine records.
Thank you so much ELMA

[Elma]

Thank you Sandy

Hi
There is a marriage for Joseph Godfrey on the same page is a Sarah Ann Small Sept qtr 1877, Woolwich, Kent. Vol no: 1d. Page no: 1402.

Any of the Children's birth cert. will give you mother's maiden name, that is if he had children with all of this wives

Sandy

Thinking this one through, there appears to be another Joseph Godfrey in the same area at same time. athough I have sent for certificate for my Joseph's marriage to Elizabeth 1882 and for birth certificates of two of the children. Am I going to have to eliminate this one?
Help?
Elma

[janbooth]

Elma,

There is a marriage registered in the June qtr 1854 at Wandsworth reg district, vol 1d, page 685 of a Joseph GODFREY and one of the other names on the page is that of a Mary Ann KING. I can't check the marriage on the London Parish Registers as Wandsworth does not appear to be included so it could be a possiblity for your Joseph. However, There is a Mary Ann KING born c1823 Devon on the 1851 census of St George in the East, London:

HO107/1548, folio 120, page 25
11 Kirley? Place

Mary Ann KING Head Unm 28 Lodging House Keeper Devonshire
+ 1 Lodger

Could this be Joseph's 2nd wife?? There is also a Mary A KING, born c1821 Stoke Devon in the 1851 census of Stoke Damarel working as a Servant.

Looking for a Catherine born c1823 in Stoke, Devon in the 1841 census, there is a Catherine GOULD in Stoke Damarel born c1823, father William Gould, Shepherd, mother Catherine who could be a possiblity but the birth certificates of the children that you have sent for should give you mothers' maiden names. Given that Joseph was in the Marines, perhaps he was based at Devonport and his first marriage may well have taken place at Stoke and, because it was fairly early on in registration, was not registered.

Janet

[JAP1]

All those certificates surely MUST shed some light on the puzzle - otherwise, Elma, you will have spent a lot of money to little or no avail.

Of course, we are still stuck (at least until the certs arrive) with who was Catherine GODFREY, 41, Kidd St, buried July 29 1863 ...

Santa, please try to make sure that your Xmas mail doesn't interfere with Elma's much more important genealogical mail!

JAP

[JAP1]

Sandyhall wrote:

There is a marriage for Joseph Godfrey on the same page is a Sarah Ann Small Sept qtr 1877, Woolwich, Kent. Vol no: 1d. Page no: 1402.
...

Elma said:

Thinking this one through, there appears to be another Joseph Godfrey in the same area at same time. athough I have sent for certificate for my Joseph's marriage to Elizabeth 1882 and for birth certificates of two of the children. Am I going to have to eliminate this one?
Help?

NO!



janbooth subsequently found the appropriate marriage of Joseph GODFREY, Greenwich pensioner, to Sarah RATCLIFF in 1869. And mentioned that Joseph was with wife Sarah in the 1871 census. And found the baptism of their son in 1872 with address Shepperton Green.

However, in the worst of all possible worlds, perhaps Joseph could have married two ladies called Sarah.

So ...
Just to cross all the 't's and dot all the 'i's ...
The other chap on the 1877 marriages page is a John PLANK. In 1881, he is in Hampshire (an army pensioner), with wife Sarah Ann, and (fortunately!) his step-daughter, Helen Laura SMALL.

Continuing on ...
That leaves the other Joseph GODFREY marrying Jane RICHARDS. Happily, there's a Joseph GODFREY, Gunner in the RA, with wife Jane in Newcastle on Tyne in 1881 - and it just so happens that they have two children aged 3 and 1, and (hurrah!) both were born in Woolwich.

JAP
PS: Elma, I'm really looking forward to hearing what's on the certificates you have ordered.

[janbooth]

Me too, Judy. Hope they aren't too delayed because of Christmas because I have developed quite an affection for this family Elma.

Janet

[Sandyhall]

Hi

I'm still in the game to, watching and awaiting the out come

Sandy