Where are Lucy and Nellie?

[Creighton]

I have a conundrum in my family tree (don't we all)! I am hoping perhaps someone here can assist me with solving it.

My 2nd great grandfather, Charles Edwin GURNEY died in September 1879, just before the birth of my great grandmother, Laurestina. This was quite sad, and he left a widow - Frances Gurney née Pike, to bring up the 6 children alone.
I have checked the census records to see what happened to the family, but in the 1891 census there is another child (daughter to Frances, a widow) just 3 months old, named Lucy, then again in the 1901 census she appears again aged 10, and with yet another sibling named Nellie (daughter to Frances, a widow), aged 7.
There is no gentleman residing in the household, Frances is stated as a widow, and when I search the BMD records for Lucy and Nellie, nothing is to be found. Their birthplaces are given as Kingston, Surrey.
Now I know that my Frances may have had an affair with someone, but I just can't seem to track down any records for these 2 children to progress this research further.
Can anyone offer any ideas?

[MarkJ]

I suspect the births are -

March qtr 1891

Violet Ivy L GURNEY
Kingston district 2a 365

and

March qtr 1894
Evelyn Nellie L GURNEY
Kingston district 2a 335

It might be worth ordering the certificates for those two and see if there is any useful info.

Mark

[Creighton]

Thanks for the tip Mark. I have just ordered them, with reference checking for the mother's maiden name. I have not seen the 1911 census yet as I am waiting for them to become part of the subscription package with Findmypast, or when I can get some 'feeebie' credits from somewhere.

[Mutley]

I can tell you that in 1911,
Violet Ivy Gurney was a Domestic Housemaid living in Earls Court, Kensington and working for the family of Gertrude Stewart. She was age 20 and states born in Richmond.

[Creighton]

That is kind of you to look for me Mutley. I wonder what happened to the 'Lucy' part of her name, if in fact Mark's findings are the correct 'Lucy & Nellie' that I am looking for.
Maybe that was her mother's pet name for her and she didn't use it in her adulthood. I did think that perhaps they weren't even her children and she 'inherited' them from another relative with a different surname.
I will eagerly await the certificates from GRO (they should be here by Christmas if the Royal Mail get their way!).
Thanks.

[Mutley]

You are welcome,
Evelyn (Nellie) is there in a different household in Wandsworth. At 18 she could well be a servant also. Could be worth entering her name in the free search as living in Wandsworth and seeing if you recognise any other names in the long list that comes up.

[Creighton]

I only got one certificate, and that was for Evelyn Nellie Letts Gurney, and no father is named on the birth certificate. I am guessing that the 'L' on Violet Ivy L Gurney will also be for Letts (or maybe Lucy?). The other certificate apparently could not be found - perhaps I will try again but without the reference checking this time. Can one assume that perhaps the father had the surname of Letts? Frances Mary Gurney née Pike was born in 1853 so she would have been about 40 when she had 'Lucy' and about 43 when she had 'Nellie'. This is becoming quite a mystery and I am wondering if in fact they were her bona fide offspring or did she adopt them from a close family member and register their births as their natural mother? Did this thing happen in those days (does it now?).

[bjelkier]

You can now buy a subscription from FMP which includes the 1911 census.

[Creighton]

An update to this thread as I now have (finally) both the birth certificates for Lucy and Nellie. 'Lucy' was born Violet Ivy Letts Gurney, and 'Nellie' was born Evelyn Nellie Letts Gurney. Both children have the name Letts as one of their forenames so I am now convinced that perhaps this was the surname of the father. No father was entered on the birth certificate, and I do know for a fact that the mother (Frances Mary Gurney née Pike) was a widow. So these girls were illegitimate, but I would like some advice on how to identify the father, if that is possible. Any ideas from those experienced ones amongst us would be most welcomed.

Creighton

[Mutley]

Have you found the marriages of the sisters? maybe they knew their father. A long shot but possible.