Need help please

[anndot]

can any one help please befrore i pull what's left of my hair out.

i have a Thomas Warman born 1845 Manchester England, on the 1891 census hes living with his wife , daughter, his brother George, and niece Mary but can't find him on the 1901 census and his wife is down as a widow.
ive looked through all death records from 1891-1902 but cant find him.

so im trying other avenues to find him, one being that he amy have gone to prison, so my question is how do i go about finding prison records.
on the 1891 census hes living at 2 Crown Street Brentwood.

any help i will be grateful for
thanks
anndot

[Peter Goodey]

And where was the widow in 1901?

Can you please let us have the census references for 1891 and 1901?

[jeeb]

Hi Anndot,

Peter -The widow is in Kent named Bacon. It is the name of her son in law. RG13/697 Folio 17 Page 26

If Thomas was still alive and in prison in 1901 he would still have to be on the census. The only problem with institutions is that they often only referred to people by their initials.

Jeremy

[AdeleE]

What is odd about the 1891 census is that his wife is listed first on the enumeration.

Sarah Warman, wife, m, 53, (no occup), b Brentwood, Essex
Thomas Warman, head, m, 47, general labourer, b. Manchester
George Warman, brother, widwr, 54, ditto, b. Ireland
Hepzibah Warman, daughter, 15, b, Essex, Ingrave
Mary Warman, niece, 8, scholar, b. ditto

RG12; Piece: 1381; Folio 65; Page 28
2 Crown St, Brentwood, Billericay, Essex

Is it possible that he really wasn't "there" in 1891?

Adele

[pottoka]

On Alchemy, the wife has been forgotten in the household members as, for some reason, she was listed above Thomas, the head. (I have added her so that we know who she is!)

Sarah Warman - Wife - M - 53 - Essex, Brentwood
Thomas Warman - Head - M - 47 - General Labourer - Manchester
George Warman - Brother -Widr - 54 - ____ do ____ - Ireland
Hepzibah Warman - Daur - 15 - Ingrave, Essex, England
Mary Warman - Niece - 8 - Ingrave, Essex, England

Reference: Class: RG12; Piece: 1381; Folio 65; Page 28;

Why are you thinking of prison, Anndot? He may have deserted his wife, and she put "widow" in 1901 to save face.

[anndot]

thats what i like to see a mystery trying to be sorted.
have no ide why i thought of Thomas going in to prison just trying to clutch at straws to find him.
also on the 1891 census George the brother is down as being born in Ireland he was infact born on Guernsy as i have his baptism record.
which ive put up safe so safe i now cant find it.
there are a few possible death matches in 1901 June but neither match his age he would have been at the time which would have been 56 and not on the record as 53.
but i suppose 3 years is nothing.
looks as if ill have to send for that death certificate to find out.
thanks for any help.
next will be trolling through the death records to find a death date for Sarah the wife
kind regards
anndot

[jeeb]

Hi anndot,
When his daughter Hepzibah married Nehemiah Bacon in 1899 does it say her father is deceased on the marriage certificate?

Jeremy

[Izzycat]

It could be that he has been omitted from the GRO death index. I have a similar situation with my husband's 2 x gt grandfather - he is enumerated in 1891 with his family but in 1901 his wife is shown as widowed but I cannot find him in the GRO death index. I am waiting for BMD UK Yorkshire to transcribe the deaths 1891 - 1901 to see if he is included.

[Rubina]

Hi

Have also found Thomas Warman, aged 35 living with his brother Samuel and family on the 1881. RG11 1757 60 9.

BUT he is also on the 1881 as living with wife Sarah and daughter Hepzibah (DoBs same)!! RG11 1756 56 25.

Which house was he actually living in? Sarah could have given his name as she may have been confused about the ruling of only including those who were in the house on cencus night.

1871 he and Sara are living with his parents. RG10 1657 44 18.

But, sorry, not found him in 1901!

Rubina

[Rubina]

Hi

Presume you know this but I started to wonder why Thomas' parents Robert and Charlotte, had children all over the place and found them in 1851 with his Father's occupation listed as Captain of 7th Regiment of Chelsea Pensioners!

Sister Elizabeth born Ireland, Brother George born Guernsey, Thomas born Manchester and Samuel born Ingrave!

So annoyed, I forgot to note cencus details and when I went back couldn't find them again - but they are there.

As I said, you probably know this - I was looking out of interest!

Rubina