Griffiths mystery!

[aggie6225]

Hi friends,

Is there anyone who can help me sort out this brickwall? My husband is one of the Griffiths clan. His GGrandfather (Henry(1859ish & Dora Matthews) emigrated to Australia with their family, that included my husband's Grandfather as a young boy. Henry's mother was called Emma, who lived in Ledbury, Herefordshire. The problem is that on the censi that I could get of the family, start from 1861 & has her listed as a widow. Can anyone tell me if she had married or was orginally Emma Griffiths? Also prior to 1861 did she have a husband who was hardly ever home?

Hope to hear from someone soon.

Ann Griffiths (nee Sheldrake)

[sueannbowen]

Hi Ann
Can you give us your 1861 census reference as a starter? What does the census say about her age, place of birth etc?

My initial look at the 1861 doesn't give me a good steer there are a couple living in Ledbury one aged 22 and one aged 11 - not the latter obviously but I am not sure if the other one is old enough.
thanks

[ChristineR]

You need to get the marriage certificate of Henry and Dora for some guidance as to what he says about his father's name and occupation.

Was a father named on Henry's death certificate in Australia?

[michaelpipe]

there are a couple living in Ledbury one aged 22 and one aged 11 - not the latter obviously but I am not sure if the other one is old enough.
thanks

The 22 year old one matches with an entry for Emma, widow, in 1871 with Henry Griffiths age 12. In 1861 she is living with parents John & Sarah Hardwick, and she is stated to be MARRIED. There is a 2 year old Henry Hardwick in the household.

There is a marriage Jun Qtr 1858 Worcester 6c 361 with Thomas Griffiths & Emma Hardwick on the same page.

[Thomasin]

I wondered if Henry could be the child of one of Emma's younger sisters, but there were no Henry Hardwicks born in the relevant period. However, FreeBMD does have a Henry James Griffiths born Sept quarter 1859 in the Ledbury district, 6a 381.

Thomasin

[michaelpipe]

I wondered if Henry could be the child of one of Emma's younger sisters, but there were no Henry Hardwicks born in the relevant period. However, FreeBMD does have a Henry James Griffiths born Sept quarter 1859 in the Ledbury district, 6a 381.

Thomasin

There is a Henry Hardwick birth reg in Ross (adjacent reg dist) in 1858 Dec.

[Thomasin]

... and he would still be 2 at the time of the 1861 census.

Looking at Emma, there was an Emmaley Hardwick b. Ledbury Sept. quarter 1838, 26 163. This would tie in with the Emila Hardwick in 1841, with the same parents as in 1861:

HARDWICK John 30
Sarah 30
Eliza 12
Carrolin 8e
Hannah 6
Emila 2

Bye Street, Ledbury
HO107; 425; 1/22; 38

Thomasin

[Thomasin]

In 1871, when Emma is a widow of 30, she has Henry (12), Charles (7) and Fanny (2 months), all born in Ledbury except Henry (Worcester).

If Thomas Griffiths is our man, this would imply that he was still alive at least 11 months before the census. There are four Thomas Griffiths deaths given on FreeBMD for Herefordshire and Worcestershire during 1860, at Presteigne, Evesham, Upton and (King's Norton). From the reference the last one may be Tenbury, although the original image does seem to show a different volume number, so I think it's a transcription error.

So, assuming that Fanny was his child, there are only three TGs to choose from.

Thomasin

[aggie6225]

Hi & thanks for the response,

I was slightly incorrect about the 1861 census showing her as a widow. It was actually the 1871 census. I had also come across the 1861 census(Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 2682; Folio: 45; Page: 6). with her as Hardwick (& also seen the marriage index of 1858 with Thomas Griffiths in Worcester where it I'm fairly sure that Henry was born. The 1861 census has Henry Griffiths as a 2 year old but because of Emma was staying with her parents & it was assumed that Henry was a son of Emma's parents. I found it interesting because if Thomas had died somewhere around that time, the rest of the children (Charles, 1864; Fanny, 1871 & Thomas, 1873), are likely to be illegitimate but Emma had the surname of Griffiths by then.

I also found it interesting that when I first found the reference to Emma Harwick birth in Ledbury at Free BMD, it was Emma but now seems to be Emmaley.

I'll follow up with the death certificate of Henry Griffiths (thanks for the idea, ChristineR) & if that doesn't give the information, I'll get the birth certificate. I'm trying to leave it as late as possible in the vain hope that the Australian dollar will achieve parity with the English pound.

If anyone comes up with some more interesting facts, I'll be glad to receive them.

All the best;
Ann Griffiths

[Thomasin]

I also found it interesting that when I first found the reference to Emma Harwick birth in Ledbury at Free BMD, it was Emma but now seems to be Emmaley.

I wouldn't worry about her name. As long as it begins with Em, it could turn into anything. I have an Emily who became Emma and Emmerlen/Emmerson on censuses as well as Emily. I've known Emily to turn into Amelia on censuses too.

Thomasin