Help with handwriting

[Jan65]

I have admitted defeat with the last two/three words on this line. It is only the fifth line of the will, and I believe the first few words say:

"... defender of the faith and in ??? ???? ? ?????..."

I can't even decide whether there are two, three or four words, and if I read each letter in turn, I come up with:

c?th yonedy a tely

which I can't make sense of whichever way I look at it, although each time I do, some of the letters change!

For context, I reckon that the first few lines of the will say:

"In the name of god and of the glorious and blessed / Virgin our Lady Sainte Mary and of all the holy / company of Heaven We Henry by the grace / of god King of England Frannce and Ireland / defender of the faith and in ???? ?????? ? ???? / under God the Supreme Hed of the church of / England and Ireland of that name the eight / calling to our remembrance the great gifts ..."

Hoping that someone can put me out of my misery!

By the way, I haven't finished the will yet! Have done 19 pages, but keep tiring of it and having a break before going back to it.

[pottoka]

Defender of the faith and in earth?

[sueannbowen]

Hi Janice - what period is this? I have a very handy book that gives examples of old handwriting which might help.

sue

[pottoka]

"ymdyatily" ... immediately?

giving: "Defender of the Faith and in earth immediately under God the Supreme Head of the Church of England."

Just that has given me a headache - rather you than me: good luck!

[Jan65]

Defender of the faith and in earth?

Thanks Pottoka. Hmmm. I'm fairly sure of the "th" at the end of that word, but am also fairly sure that it begins with a "c" as that is fairly consistently the way a "c" was written throughout the document. But I'm no expert by any means, so am prepared to accept any and all suggestions! "in earth" could well make sense in the context, couldn't it?

I'm not at all sure about the second letter. It may well be two letters. Sometimes I think it looks like an "a", other times I think it could be an "is" (there seem to be two dots floating above these letters).

Like I said, each time I look, I see something different!

Any ideas about the following one/two/three words?

[Jan65]

[QUOTE=pottoka;291901]"ymdyatily" ... immediately?
QUOTE]

!!!!!!!!!!! Pottoka, I think you've got it, I think that's definitely what it says! I can see it now! Thank you, thank you, it's been bugging me from the start!

Still not sure about the "earth" but hey, you got "immediately", so who am I to argue?!

Janice

Edit - whoops, quote didn't work.

[sueannbowen]

If we are taking the word faith as OK then the th matches Pottokas 'earth' suggestion. Bit difficult to compare with just that line to go on.

[Jan65]

Hi Janice - what period is this? I have a very handy book that gives examples of old handwriting which might help. sue

Thank you Sue. This is Henry VIII's will, from the mid 1500s. Any help very welcome! Also - what is your book, and where did you get it?!

[terrysfamily]

WILL OF HENRY VIII (1546)[1]



Henry R. In the name of God and of the glorious and blessed Virgin, our Lady

Saint Mary, and of all the holy company of heaven, we, Henry, by the grace

of God king of England, France, and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, and in

earth immediately under God the supreme head of the Church of England and

Ireland, of that name the eighth, calling to our remembrance the great gifts

and benefits of Almighty God given to us in this transitory life, give unto

Him our most lowly and humble thanks, acknowledging ourself insufficient in

any part to deserve or recompense the same, but fear that we have not

worthily received the same....

[Jan65]

If we are taking the word faith as OK then the th matches Pottokas 'earth' suggestion. Bit difficult to compare with just that line to go on.

I'm fairly sure of the word "faith", but I can't decide what that word says. Earth I think is a good possible, but why "in earth" rather than "on earth"? Unless it DOES say "on earth". But I think that's an "i" rather than an "o".

I'm going round in circles ...