William Bouch Captain of Sailing Ships

[JohnF]

The father of Sir Thomas Bouch is Captain William Bouch who made a fortune trading on his own account (East India Co?) in sailing ships worldwide.
He must have been born about 1779 to be Captain of a ship and retire to his birthplace Thursby Cumberland there to die in 1838

Who were his parents?

His recorded wife is Elizabeth Sanderson 1783- 1867 dau of Robert Sanderson + Ann Simpson (they married 28 Apr 1816 at Thursby) but several of his children "born in the China Sea" suddenly appeared at Thursby as grown men.

Any info gratefully received
John

[JohnF]

Hello Finbar
Yes that may be him! With brother also Lancelot.
Many thanks

But there are other Williams:
1771 chr 10 May 1771 Wigton, Cumberland son of John + Jane
1773 chr 24 Apr 1773 St James Whitehaven son of Martin + Elizabeth
1775 estimated from birth of children Ann +William both chr 27 Feb 1803
at All Saints, Cockermouth Cumberland, mother Jane Scarrow

And my guess of born 1779 is only “In order to be old enough to have the experience
to be a sea captain”
Could be the 1775 estimated one is the very same man as the one you found and Cockermouth was a port and shipbuilding town for Cumberland.
John

[Karen Newman]

The death cert would give his age, which would give you a better idea of year of birth.

Though details are given to the best of the informant's knowledge so may not be totally accurate.

[chewett]

I'm researching the Bouch family as I too have them in my family tree.

I have the parents of Captain William Bouch as being John Bouch of Old Hale & Martha Benn.

I want to link them to Martin Bouch.

Chewett

[Coromandel]

Hello chewett and welcome

The original poster isn't a member any more but there's no reason why we can't dust off this old thread and see if we can shed any new light on the Bouch family.

You mention 'John Bouch of Old Hale & Martha Benn'. Among papers at the Cumbria Record Office relating to a two spinsters, Elizabeth Bouch and Sarah Ann Bouch of Workington (died 1905 and 1911), there is a much older document described as

'Deed of gift by Joseph Benn, farmer of Nether End, St Bees to his daughter Martha, wife of John Bouch farmer of Low Hall, St Bees of one moiety of the Royalty of iron ore mine in a field Dobgill Croft at Jack Trees, St Bees. Other moiety to son Thomas Benn of Nether End 1748'.

(from the Access to Archives (A2A) website; Cumbria Record Office ref. DBH 24/10/1 to DBH/24/10/9)

So this points us towards the parish of St Bees (and raises the question is 'Low Hall' the same as 'Old Hale'?)

FamilySearch has quite a few Bouch baptisms from St Bees. Here are the ones whose father is shown as John:

Martha Bouch bapt 1732 dau of John & Martha
Luce Bouch bapt 1733 bur. 1736, dau. of John Bouch
John son of John Bouch, bapt. & buried 1738
Thomas Bouch bapt 1739, buried 1741, son of Jno Bouch
Betty bapt 1741 dau of John Bouch
Isabel bapt 1744 dau. of John Bouch
Martin bapt 1747 son of John Bouch
[I have only copied out the years; you can find the full dates in FamilySearch. All entries should also be checked against the original register in case of errors and omissions.)

(is this 1747 Martin the Martin Bouch, bread baker, aged 75, who was buried at Workington in 1823 also according to FamilySearch?)

There's no sign on FamilySearch of a William son of John & Martha, at least not at St Bees. There was a William Bouch baptised at St Bees in 1749 but he was the son of Lancelot Bouch.

As Karen says in post #3 the death certificate should tell you William's age, and so give an idea of his date of birth, so that you can start looking for a baptism at about the right time.

Going back to John and Martha, I wonder if they are the same John and Martha for whom there's a memorial at Whitehaven St James? He died 1778 aged 88, and she 1785 aged 84 according to the transcript at

http://www.
cultrans.com/whitehaven-mis-relatedlinks-99/2524

Perhaps there are other documents, such as wills or deeds, which will fill in some bits of the jigsaw.

[Coromandel]

'The Registers of St. Bees, Cumberland: Baptisms, 1538-1837' is on Google Books, albeit only in snippet view. I can see though that Martin's baptism does call him 'the son of John Bouch of Low Hall'.

A2A tells us a bit more about Low Hall, this time in a catalogue entry relating to Cumbria Record Office document ref. D LAW/1/196. This 1754 document refers to property of Sir Wilfrid Lawson of Brayton, including 'all Sir Wilfrid's capital mansion called Hensingham Low Hall at Hensingham p. St Bees and its demesne and other lands p. St Bees and Egremont, let to John Bouch for £90 p.a.'

[Coromandel]

'An index of all surviving probate documents for the Western Deaneries of the Archdeaconry of Richmond, 1748-1858 has been prepared. The deaneries included are Amounderness, Copeland, Furness, Kendal and Lonsdale.'

There are several Bouch entries, which you can see here:

http://www.
uclan.ac.uk/schools/education_social_sciences/history/research/institute_of_local_and_family_history/members_area/b_part2.php

This is from the website of the University of Central Lancashire; members of their Institute of Local and Family History have access to the full index, I think. If I am reading GENUKI correctly, the original probate records are at the Lancashire Record Office.

This won't be a complete list of pre-1858 Bouch wills, as at that time ecclesiastical courts dealt with probate matters. Probate for someone in St Bees might have been dealt with at a higher court, which would have separate records. I will have to check what the relevant diocesan court was for St Bees, and will get back to you on that. Above that would be the Prerogrative Court of York (PCY), for which I think indexes can be seen for a fee on origins.net. The highest of all was the Prerogative Court of Canterbury (PCC), for which the indexes to wills are on the Documents Online website.

I will have to check what the relevant diocesan court was for St Bees, and will get back to you on that.

St Bees was in the diocese of Chester until the 1850s.

[chewett]

Thank you, thank you Coromandel....Your information matches my finds.

I inherited a family tree researched in 1977, before the internet. A cousin paid to have it done but there are no dates and I wanted to validate the research + adding in the branches missing.
So far I have:
John Bouch of Old Hale married to Martha Benn.
Martha Benn's father as.. Joseph Benn of Netherend (1689 -1748)
Martha Benn's brother as Thomas Benn of Netherend

Joseph Benn of Netherend's brother being ...Thomas (1686- 9th Feb 1776) married Dina ? Ashburner?(1714-1784) in 1728.
Joseph Benn's sister... Bridget b.1682

Their parents were...
Thomas (1654-1732) married Elizabeth who died in 1728

Thomas's parents were...

Anthony ... married Bridget and died and were buried together in 1682

Anthony's father was...

Thomas who died in 1649

Thomas's parents were.... William Benn (d. 1623) married Agness

William Benn's father was...

John Benn of Crossfield (15 ? -1616)

That's as far as it goes!! There are other siblings with dates + nephews/neices etc.. listed in the tree.

...............

I have John Bouch of Old Hale married to Martha Benn as having 3 children...

William Martin Isobella

My line falls from Isobella who married Edward Evans. (yes, I noticed 'an Isobella' in your list of baptisms)
I had heard that the 'William' was the Captain William Bouch of Thursby fame who had Sir Thomas Bouch as one of his 3 sons.
But Thursby is a long way in those days from St Bees?? Also it seems a generation before, the dates don't match as Captain William was born in 1767. Nobody seems to know who Captain William Bouch's father was.

I need to get my head around all these Bouch's!!!!!

At the moment I'm living out in Australia for a few years but will be back in the UK (nr. Lancaster) for July / Aug and will seriously do something to check out these records. I have easy access to Cumbria when I'm home but just thought I'd make a start while I had the time out here. I scanned my information but it's not easy to read the faded ink! I have the origianal notes back in the UK. My father's family (the branch I'm following) came from Whitehaven.
I will 'post' back here when I have digested all your wonderful information....
Do you check this site often?
I'm such a novice at all this but trying!!!

Chewett

[Coromandel]

Hi again Chewett

It is good that you are starting out with a degree of scepticism about the link with William Bouch, as then you won't be disappointed if it turns out not to be true. Family stories about being related to someone famous with the same surname often turn out just to be wishful thinking! When I started out on the family history trail many moons ago I spent a lot of time trying to find supposed family connections with three famous people but none of the links ever materialised. Now, older and wiser, I know that I am descended from a long line of ordinary folk. I don't mind at all that nobody's ever heard of them: to me they're special.

If the name Bouch is unusual enough, it may pay to research all the ones you come across in a particular area. That way you will get a better feel for how many Williams of the right sort of age were around at the same time, and you may be able to rule out some as defintely not being the Captain.

I should warn you though that this is a highly addictive hobby! The research is never finished . . . and even when you run into brickwalls with your own ancestors you can always come and look on this forum and find other people's genealogical puzzles to solve! (You asked if I came here often: if you compare the date I joined and the number of posts I've made you will see I spend much too much time around here!!!)

Best wishes

Jane a.k.a. Coromandel

[chewett]

Thank you again!
I understand all you say...I too enjoy the fact that my family tree contains 'ordinary folk' and it all adds to my love of history, exploring how they lived etc... I've thrown myself into this & now realise I must take slow steps.
I did visit the National Library here in Melbourne yesterday, as I'm trying to trace desenants of my great Uncle (more 'Bouch' names added as 2nd names!) while I'm here ...... but saw that all UK parish records, census, b.m.d, etc are here too! I can see me taking residence in the library!!

Caroline a.k.a Chewett