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  1. #1
    Jane Elderfield
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    Default John Thomas QUIN, career soldier Royal Artillery, 1793-1847

    I have the War Office 97 records for this man, John Thomas QUIN (or QUINN). His birthplace was given as Plymouth, Devon.

    He enlisted, apparently on his eleventh birthday Jan. 17, 1793, as a drummer and trumpeter. He was "underage" until Jan. 17, 1800. He rose through the ranks (bombardier, corporal, sergeant) and was discharged aged 44 in 1826.

    After a few years he re-enlisted, or was called up, in 1835 and became a Master Gunner at Landguard Fort near Felixstowe Suffolk, retiring to pension in 1847.

    I have the regimental records for his marriage to Sarah CROSS in Manchester 1803, and the births of 7 children (Manchester, Hull, Newcastle-on-Tyne). I have followed many of these children in the censuses.

    John QUIN himself and wife Sarah are found on 1841 census at Landguard Fort, but so far I have not found them on later censuses, nor their deaths.

    An interesting fact is that John was very tall for his time--even at age 65 he was just under six feet.

    So far, I have not traced his parents or found a birth/christening. (A forum member suggests possibly a Catholic christening.)

    John enlisted at Woolwich, and I think he must have had to have had permission from father, widowed mother, or guardian to enlist underage.

    Does anyone have access to Royal Artillery ENLISTMENT /ATTESTATION DOCUMENTS for 1793?

    Any thoughts from you military experts? All helpful suggestions appreciated. I'm in the boondocks of Canada--not easy to get to London!

    --Jane Elderfield
    Last edited by Jane Elderfield; 07-06-2009 at 10:59 PM. Reason: add clarification

  2. #2
    Jane Elderfield
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    Update on John Thomas QUIIN: I now have his death certificate--Dec. 6, 1850, at his daughter Elizabeth HALL's, in Greenwich. It gives his age as "70 years", which (if accurate) suggests a birth date of 1780, rather than January 17, 1782, as calculated from the military records..

  3. #3
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    It sounds as if you've quoted from his attestation papers which should be part of the WO 97 documents.

    I've never managed to track down any documents relating to a soldier's original recruitment as a boy.

    I think your best bet is to work through the parish registers for the Plymouth area.

  4. #4
    Jane Elderfield
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    Default Underage recruit to Army 1700s

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Goodey View Post
    It sounds as if you've quoted from his attestation papers which should be part of the WO 97 documents.
    I've never managed to track down any documents relating to a soldier's original recruitment as a boy. ...
    Dear Peter--

    You're right. I looked up in Herber, Ancestral Trails page 322, and see that indeed the attestation is part of WO 97.

    But somewhere I think I've read that underage recruits had to have permission from father or widowed mother to join up, and present a certificate of baptism. Or am I mixed up with some other service?

    Also, Herber says, "Most men enlisted voluntarily (the minimum age being 18 from 1780)." Then he gives an example of a WO 97-- of a soldier who was underage at enlistment.

    Well, my John QUIN was underage for seven years, from "17th Jany 1793" until "16th Jany 1800". During this time he had gone from being "Drummer & Trumpeter" to "Gunner & Driver". Starting on "17th Jany 1800", his service began to count towards his eventual pension. These details are from his second WO 97 document.

    His first WO 97 says he "was enlisted... at Woolwich... on the 17th Day of January 1793 at the Age of Eleven years for Unlimited Service." It has a less detailed list of his promotions, but it is clear that he served "prior to the Age of Eighteen" for "7 Yrs. --- Days."

    So, if the minimum age was 18, how could he enlist at the age of eleven?

    I note that the first page of the WO 97 documents is retrospective-- it was written at the time of discharge, not at the time of enlistment. Would there have been an Enlistment Book for each regiment?

    I'm puzzled! Can any military experts shed any light on this? --Jane

  5. #5
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    Jane

    This a bit of a long shot, but I did find a John Quin, pauper, in the Charity Hall Workhouse, Kingston upon Hull in the 1851 Census, where his place of birth was given as 'in the Army'.

    Just supposing this is your man, it could explain why he was enlisted as a drummer boy at such a young age - he was in his Father's regiment.

    Martin

    I've just re read your posts and this cannot be him if he died in 1850!!

  6. #6
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    A snippet for you...in 1875 there were 3031 boys under 18 serving in the British Army.

    I once asked a similar question of Forrest Anderson , a respected military researcher, who replied -

    "I don't know what paperwork was made out, or what oaths were taken, by
    a boy when he joined, nor how his date of joining (and hence his age)
    was decided. However the number of pensionable years he spent in the
    Army would have reckoned from a date somewhere between his 16th to
    18th birthdays inclusive (ie his boy service wouldn't have counted
    towards a pension). This reckonable date may well have changed over
    the years, and I can't say definitively what it was around the end of
    the Napoleonic Wars".

  7. #7
    Jane Elderfield
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    Default update John Thomas QUIN, Royal Artillery

    Quote Originally Posted by Jane Elderfield View Post
    ...I have the regimental records for his marriage to Sarah CROSS in Manchester 1803, and the births of 7 children (Manchester, Hull, Newcastle-on-Tyne). I have followed many of these children in the censuses.
    Correction: first child was born in Uttoxeter, Staffordshire in 1803. His name was John QUIN and I don't know anything about his later life.

    ... so far I have not found them on later censuses, nor their deaths.
    Update: Sarah QUIN died in Greenwich, January 26, 1848, aged "68 Years". Recent research suggests she was the Sarah CROSS christened in Uttoxeter on Nov. 9, 1778, daughter of Thomas & Elizabeth CROSS.

  8. #8
    Jane Elderfield
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    Quote Originally Posted by crimea1854 View Post

    ...I did find a John Quin, pauper, in the Charity Hall Workhouse, Kingston upon Hull in the 1851 Census, where his place of birth was given as 'in the Army'.
    The site I use may have mistranscribed this census entry--I haven't found it.

    It is possible that it is John QUIN, son of John Thomas & Sarah QUIN. Does your census entry in the Workhouse give an age? (John son of John & Sarah would have been about 47.)

    Thanks-- Jane

  9. #9
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    Hi Jane

    No this John Quin was 68 so I don't believe it can be the son.

    On the site I used I think the entry has been transcribed incorrectly, although I would concede that the entry is not very clear. A*******y has his place of birth as 'In the Aaney'.

    Martin

  10. #10
    Jane Elderfield
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    With the help of a military researcher, I'm gradually finding out more about my ancestor John Thomas QUIN (aka QUINN).

    In 1795, his company was number 52, Second Battalion, Royal Artillery, under Captain Robinson. In 1847 (the year John QUIN finally retired) his company captain was I. Turner.

    New information has showed up about eldest son John QUIN, born Uttoxeter Staffordshire, 19 Dec. 1803. John junior enlisted Oct 1813, at the age of ten, into the Royal Artillery as a drummer boy. He died in Devonport, Devon, of consumption in 1835, at the Artillery Hospital. He is buried in Stoke Damerel, Devon.

    So far I have had no luck finding any baptismal record for John Thomas QUIN in or near Plymouth, Devon, 1780 or 1782. (Another forum member has noted a marriage at Stoke Damerel in December 1781 of a Thomas QUIN to a Charlotte MASON. These two forenames do occur in my John Thomas QUIN's family, but so far I have not linked this marriage to him.)

    Several members have suggested that John Thomas QUIN may himself have been a "son of the Regiment", since he signed up at age eleven, but so far I have not found any definite links to any QUIN (or QUINN) soldier, Royal Artillery or other.

    Still looking!
    Any suggestions appreciated. --Jane E

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