JOSEPH FREDERICK POTTER OF DURHAM, ENGLAND

[christanel]

The birth, death and marriage below are all of the family that Wirral found sailing in to Sydney in 1853.

birth V18553337 42B/1855. Potter Frances E, father Robert, mother Ann.
Reg District Cowra NSW


marriage 2677/1877 groom Miller Charles: Bride Potter Francis E, Reg District Cowra NSW

death 4518/1874 Potter Robert, Father Robert, Mother Elizabeth Reg Dist
Cowra

I think we can discount this family as yours as I have found a marriage for a Joseph Potter to an Emily Slapp in 1865 at Parramatta Sydney and they had seven children between 1867 and 1880 all around the Cowra district.

What do you think? Have I burst the bubble?
Christina

[ChristineR]

There was a bit of an age gap between Joseph and his wife - I wonder if he has shaved some years off his age, and may actually have been born much earlier. If he took enough years off, then he may have been born before civil registration began! I have had several instances in my research where death certificates as well as birth registrations of children, have all consistently reflected the aquired age given at marriage.

Just for your information, in case it later helps, there are some POTTER families registering the birth of children at Ballarat shortly after the Eureka rebellion. They are probably red herrings.

In 1855, Joseph Matthew, son of Matthew POTTER and Isabella Sarah MARSHALL - #10618
In 1856, Henry Robert, son of John POTTER and Sarah Annie MATHEWS - # 1488

I couldn't find anything on John and Sarah's marriage in Victoria or NSW.

Now, it appears, on FreebMD, that
Matthew POTTER and Isabella MARSHALL married in Sunderland district, England - June quarter, 1853 Volume 10a, Page 432 Sunderland district spans Co. Durham and Tyne and Wear.

They had 8 children in Victoria, Australia from 1855-1868
Joseph Matthew, Catherine Dorethy (sic), Isabella Alice, Eleanor, Evelyn, Louisa Emily, Ann Marshall and Alice Maud. A child, Matthew Melbourn, who was born in Sunderland, died in Victoria 1855 aged 1. So that puts their arrival around 1854/1855. Their son, Joseph Matthew, born Ballarat, married in Victoria in 1879.

Isabella was born abt 1832 at Monk Wearmouth, Durham, she died in 1901 Victoria. She was a house servant in 1851. Matthew appears to have died a few years later and was born about 1831. I think I found him in 1841 in Sunderland, along with his father Matthew (as named on his death cert) and mother Catherine. He also has a younger brother John, his youngest sibling is aged 1. By the way, they have used combinations of names of their parents with their children. Isabella's parents were Joseph and Dorothy.

I wonder if such naming clues exist in your family? Have you established where the middle name of Beaton came from with one of the children? does it belong to the wife's line. NZ birth certificates of the children - from 1875 the birthplace of the parents was recorded. Perhaps one of them will say more than England, or at least confirm Durham?

Have you located any obituary in the local newspaper for him?
Have you checked any headstone?

There is another fellow I noticed in the NZ birth index, John Lishman POTTER - he was in Ballarat area in 1859/1862. He married Elizabeth Driver 1858, Victoria, they had three children before leaving. Henry John, Frederick and Clara Annie. He died NZ aged 97 in 1931, so is about the same age as the above Matthew. He is not the same John as the other, as there is an overlap of children.

[ChristineR]

There is another fellow I noticed in the NZ birth index, John Lishman POTTER - he was in Ballarat area in 1859/1862. He married Elizabeth Driver 1858, Victoria, they had three children before leaving. Henry John, Frederick and Clara Annie. He died NZ aged 97 in 1931, so is about the same age as the above Matthew. He is not the same John as the other, as there is an overlap of children.

I cannot believe what I just found on the Australian Newspaper beta site.


LAST OF EUREKA
STOCKADE
SYDNEY, Monday.
The last survivor of the famous
battle of the Eureka Stockade, John
Lishman Potter, died at Timaru (New
Zealand). aged 98.

[ChristineR]

Just further - John Lishman is the brother of Matthew - son of Matthew Potter and Catherine Lishman and was born Sunderland. Emigrated to Australia 1854.
Went to NZ in 1861. A lot of similarities here to your fellow!

http://www.dnzb.govt.nz/DNZB/alt_ess...p?essayID=1P26
Biography of New Zealand.

Actually it says he was on the ship at the time, and arrived two weeks after the rebellion

I checked out the ship - John and Matthew arrived together. It was too much to hope for that they would have a Joseph with them.

[teesakiwi]

Well Christina....What can I say...you are a machine!! How do you find all this stuff!! I spend hours on the net going around in circles and can't find any of the info you have!!

Now...I can't believe you have come up with J Lishman Potter!! Many years ago when we attempted to do the family tree (pre internet days) my husband and I came to the conclusion that the there COULD HAVE been a mix up with with J L Potter and J F Potter....( i didn't mention this earlier as I thought it would confuse things too much, but now that we are IN A TOTAL STATE of confusion, i'll throw it in!!). If I tell you we live in Timaru where JL Potter lived...that would be too much.....pure coincidence !!

Anyway, it is really starting to make sense that there could have been a terrible mix up in the history books as J Lishman Potter also came from Durham, was reputted to have taken part in the Eureka Stockade and took part in the goldrush in Gabriels Gully in 1861 (which is the same info that has been written up about our Joseph Frederick Potter). The only real difference is the age between these two gentlemen.

I still believe that all the dates re J F's marriage and death etc are correct (which still puts him being born in 1842) BUT it could have been anywhere in England.

The only thing we know for absolutely sure is that Joseph F and his young wife lived in Reefton NZ and had about 9 children and I have ALL the relevant childrens names etc. They were a well known family and I have found lots of articles about the family in newspaper archives.

I have just opened up a book and it says.

....Joseph F. Potter was a typical old-time miner. Born in 1842 at Durham, he had first followed the rush to Australia (according to the Otago historian Robert Gilkison, he took part in the Eureka Stockade affair). When Gabriels Gully was discovered in 1861 he joined the Otago rush to the Dunstan, where he opened up Potter's Gully a year later. He was off to Hokitia in 1865 at the start of the West Coast rushes .........etc.... After many years of mining in the district he died in 1919 and buried on old Reefton cemetery.....

So, its very hard.....we have had in in our brains that all the info we have read in these old NZ books is true as we had no reason to doubt, but now we are not sure. The writer certainly writes his name as Joseph F. Potter all the way thru as if not to confuse him with someone else, but its all too similiar to John L. Potter.

I am just off to see if Joseph was married before he married at age 34/35. Now that is something I havent checked..... Keep ya posted.

Cheers for now Teresa

Cheers for now Teresa

[ChristineR]

Oh wow, so many coincidences.

The sources that I used are the Victorian BDM indexes (on cd) and I also looked at the English census at John and Matthew's family back in Sunderland. I also used FreeBMD. There is also a free online newspaper archive for Australian papers, still in development.

....Joseph F. Potter was a typical old-time miner. Born in 1842 at Durham, he had first followed the rush to Australia (according to the Otago historian Robert Gilkison, he took part in the Eureka Stockade affair). When Gabriels Gully was discovered in 1861 he joined the Otago rush to the Dunstan, where he opened up Potter's Gully a year later. He was off to Hokitia in 1865 at the start of the West Coast rushes .........etc.... After many years of mining in the district he died in 1919 and buried on old Reefton cemetery.....

We know that John Lishman Potter proclaimed himself to be at Eureka Stockade, though he did not arrived until it was over. Perhaps he knew that there was a Potter there. And I did see an old posting online from a descendant who believes that he is also the one who discovered the Potter 1, 2 & 3 gold mines. Maybe he made up his involvement in that area as well, he seems to be very economical with the truth and liked to promote himself!

Do you have any of Joseph's children's birth certificate printouts?
If not, you really need to establish if there is any further information about his birthplace in these registrations.

[mavndav]

Whoops, didn't answer your questions....

The marriage certificate does not ask or show parents names, however witnesses were brides father Thomas Benjamin Rosser and I think Jane or Irene Rosser (name of marriage certificate shows Roper which I have had officially amended on records).

The whole research thing on JF Potter came about because my husbands father was contacted some years ago by a person doing the ROSSER family tree and she was trying to tie up the Potter side. He had NO info personally except that he was born in Durham England in 1842 and joined one of the early gold rushes to Australia. (this latter info was only supplied by a historian in NZ) whom I am trying to contact.

It is a bit tricky isn't it.

Cheers again Teresa.

Do you have the names of Joseph Frederick Potter's 9 children who were born Reefton New Zealand

Thank you Mavis

[Procat]

Hi Mavis,

Unfortunately teesakiwi is no longer a member of the forum (you can tell by the word guest under the username).