wyatt & tree family islington

[lisagrace]

hi is there anyone out there who has time to look at this family as i am now confused as to who is who? this may take some time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
census
RG10/259, RG11/232, RG12/227
in 1871 ,
j w wyatt married to sarah ann 1839? cant find a marriage, emily wyatt checked on bmd as 1865 st pancras as emily tree, elizabeth wyatt checked on bmd as 1867 st pancras as elizabeth wyatt( middle name) tree (surname), rosina wyatt checked on bmd as 1869 st pancras as rosina tree.
if sarah ann tree 1815 is the mother in law, does that mean she is sarah ann1839's mother therefore her maiden name is tree, if so all her children are illegitamate.? if she was married before wyatt to a tree who is charles the son in law? did charles marry another daughter? as no other daughter is found and who is george? sarah 1839's brother?
now in 1881
j w is now william? who is this charles? there are more kids now with the bmd checked as wyatt.
in 1891
william is dead i'm not suprised with all this confusion, all the girls have left home and charles is living next door with ellen ? if she is sarah 1839's daughter she'd be a tree if charles is sarah's brother it makes charles ellen's uncle??? . i cant find any of these people in the 1861 census in either name and the problem i'm have putting the name TREE in any search box is it comes up in the context of family tree, no help there!.

I'm sorry if this is long winded but ive got myself into a confused state feel sorry for the poor person who reads it

you need a medal.

[Waitabit]

Hi Lisagrace,

Here may be a small part of your puzzle:
(george tree 27 st.Lukes
sarah tree 24 essex
Mary ann Smith 16 sis-in-law clerkinwell) 1871 census

A Sarah Elizabeth Smith married George Tree in the Sep.1/4 of 1867 at Clerkinwell.

A Mary Ann Smith was born in 1854 MAr.1/4 in Clerkinwell
A Sarah Elizabeth Smith was bornin Edmonton in 1846
Sep.1/4.

ON IGI batch no. C042071 features a Sarah Ann Tree.

Parents are William Henry & Sarah Tree.

On FreeBMD 1851 A Henry Tree married A Sarah Ann CLark at St.Saviours.
A Henry Tree died in the June 1/4 of 1854 St.Saviours.

Class: RG9; Piece: 305; Folio: 82; Page: 2;
1861 has a Sarah Tree Head.b .18815 Newington, res. Poplar.

Time runneth away from me, sorry.perhaps some-one else will have betterluck

[lisagrace]

thanks for looking and for spending time on this family, i'll check out all of the info and let you know how i am progressing

[nichbuket]

Hi,

I know it has been a very long time since this thread was activated but Emily Tree born 1865 St Pancras, London is my great great nan and I thought I could help a bit. I don't know her maiden name, but Sarah Ann (1839) first married William Tree: Emily, Elizabeth and Rosina's father. Her second marriage was to a William Frederick Wyatt and they had their own children together. I haven't quite narrowed down the exact dates yet but william tree died before 1871 and wyatt died before July of 1891 since he is listed as deceased on Emily's second marriage certificate.

The other Sarah Ann, I believe is 1839 Sarah's old mother in law and Charles is HER son. They sometimes listed the children of parent-in-laws as in-laws themselves but with son/daughter in front. George would be Charles and William's brother.

I hope this helped some, and if you've learned anything new or have any questions, I be interested in hearing about it.

Thanks
Nich

[lisagrace]

hi nich, i havent looked at that tree for ages your info looks interesting ,i'll have a look at what i have today might take me a while and get back to you soon as
lisa x

[lisagrace]

ok what i have is

sarah ann 1839 was married to william tree (though i have no marriage date or sarahs maiden name) he died before 1871 census as cant find him on any yet they had
ellen 1861,
emily 1865,
elizabeth 1867,
rosina 1869
agnes 1871.
then she married william wyatt around 1865 they had
william 1873,
frederick 1876
frances/fanny 1878
joseph 1879
all in all sarah had 9 children and two husbands
ellen 1861 married charles tree not sure he must have been a cousin or related somehow to sarah ann's first mother in law if charles was williams brother then charles and ellen would be first cousins think it was illegal then thought you could only marry second cousins might be wrong though.
agnes married john jarvis then she married george bull(my connection)
do you know sarah ann 1839's maiden name or have the marriages for either of the husbands

dont know if this is what you have

lisa x

[lisagrace]

does anyone know if it was legal to marry first cousins in 1861 ?

lisa x

[Coromandel]

Here are the full 1871 census details

1871 census, 9 Half Moon Ct, Islington
J W Wyatt, head, mar, 47, engine fitter at works, b. Surrey Lambeth
Sarah A do, wife, mar, 31, b. Midd St Lukes
Emily do, daur, 6, scholar, b. Midd Clerkenwell
Elizabeth do, daur, 4, scholar, b. do do
Rosina do, daur, 1, b. do St Pancras
Sarah Ann Tree, Mother in law, widow, 56, b do
Chas Tree son in law, unm., 13, errand boy, b. do Clerkenwell
[in separate part of same house]
George Tree, head, mar, 27, house painter, b. do St Lukes
Sarah Tree, wife, mar, 24, [occupation struck out], b. Essex
Mary Ann Smith, (sister?) in law, unm, 16, [can't make out her occupation], b. Midd Clarkenwell
(RG 10/259, f.84, p.25)

One possible explanation for this household would be as follows:

An unmarried mother called Sarah A. Tree (born about 1840) has a child Charles Tree born about 1858 Clerkenwell
She then has children Emily, Elizabeth and Rosina (whether in wedlock or not I am not clear: on the 1871 census Mr Wyatt calls them his children, while Charles Tree is clearly distinguished as a son-in-law, here evidently meaning stepson). But Nich's post #4 above suggests Emily started off life as Emily Tree.)

Whether Mr Wyatt and Sarah had really married remains to be discovered.

In another part of the same house is George Tree, perhaps a son of the widowed Sarah Ann Tree and (if my theory is correct) brother of Sarah Ann 'Wyatt'.

There's an interesting multiple baptism at 31 Oct 1849, Charterhouse St Thomas (from London Parish Registers on Ancestry):

Sarah Ann Tree (b. 26 Dec 1839)
John James Tree (b. 25 Aug 1842)
George Tree (b.17 March 1844)
William Henry Tree (b. 24 March 1846)
Charles Tree (b. 16 Aug. 1848)

These five, all shown as children of William Henry & Sarah Tree, were all baptised on the same day. Abode shown as 3 Whites Yard and father's occupation as hawker.

This would fit with the following census:

1851 census, 6 Hartshorn Close, St Luke's, Middlesex
Wm Hy Tree, head, mar., 35, china hawker, b. Midx Marylebone
Sarah, wife, mar., 41, b. Midx Hilingdon(?)
Sarah, daur, 13,
Jas, son, 11
Geo, son, 7
(Wm?), son, 5
Chas, son, 3
Mary Ann, "son" (but age is written in 'female' column), 6 mo
all children shown as born St Lukes

HO 107/1522, f.238, p.51
Census returns Crown copyright, in care of TNA

If my theory is correct, it is Sarah Ann Tree born 1839 baptised 1849 who was mother of Rosina et al.: her husband would then have been fictitious which could be why we're having trouble finding a marriage.

Much more research would be needed to back up this theory.

[lisagrace]

thankyou

ive had alook at all my stuff now and the post i sent before was slightly wrong ellen 1861 was not her daughter she was charles wife although i cant find a marriage
therefore she had 8 children so all that stuff i wrote about cousins isnt releavant

i do have a birth for a charles tree 1857 mother sarah tree 10 wilmington place clerkenwell no father registered so the unmarried mother bit might be true she would have been 18 at the time. cannot find her marriage to william tree anywhere or a death for william tree, the children must have changed there name to wyatt when she got with the new man j w wyatt/william wyatt he was her husband on census in 1871 as i cannot find a marriage for him either .

[nichbuket]

Hi Lisa,

I pretty, much have what you have, though I don't have anything for Ellen besides her husband. I however have William Tree dying between 0ct 1870 and Mar 1871 because Agnes was born in July of 1871 and that years census was taken April 2. I'm taking it that Sarah Ann (1839) married William F Wyatt between that time window as well. I've really just started researching this side of the family, and found a cousin who is descendent of on of Emily's other children, so I'm working with her. I have Emily's second marriage certificate, but will be sending away for her birth certificate soon to get her mother's maiden name. I'm working on the theory it may be Tree as well and Sarah Ann and William were cousins. As for marrying your first cousin, as far as I can see in my research in 1861 English law, it was legal. I can seem to find mentioning it being illegal till the 1880s.

thx
Nich