Identifying parents (or siblings)

[julielou2]

Hello board

Please can anyone give me any strategies or tips for identifying the parents of an individual when :

• the father is not named on the person's marriage certificate which just shows the word "dead";
• the person cannot be positively identified on childhood census returns in 1851 or 1861 (I believe their details are missing - there are more living people with this name from the BMD index than there are census returns);
• there are no siblings identified through lifetime census returns (there are no visitors from 1871 to 1901 censuses who are siblings or other relations);
• there are multiple births on freeBMD for people born with the same name within the likely registration districts (I've sent of for 2 of the birth certs but still don't know which one might be right and happen to believe that both could be wrong).

I am totally stuck and have been for four months on this one key person. How can I find out who his parents or even his siblings are?

How do other people with commonly named, city dwelling, enigmatic forebears break through their walls?

Jules

[Neil Wilson]

Have you viewed the actual baptism records for any of these births? Some times the local priest wrote more than was given, like the name of the father in the remarks column, which if was being transcribed I would not expect the transcriber to include in the name of the father. Then if he was anything like the priest who recorded my grand father, the b word was used for him and is siblings.

[julielou2]

Hello Neil

Thank you for your response. No I haven't got as far as checking parish records. I looked on freeBMD which returned a fairly long list of children born in Lancashire between 1843 and 1844 with the name of Thomas WILLIAMSON.

Could anyone advise if I need to know in which church each child was christened at or would there be a central repository for parish records in Manchester and possibly also Chorlton & Ashton?

Regards

Jules

[Neil Wilson]

Most parishes have submitted their registers to the local register office so I would start at Manchester, https://www.gmcro.co.uk/ and see what records they hold.

[Geoffers]

Do any census returns tie down the birthplace of your chap?

Who were the witnesses to his wedding? - Any relatives who can be traced?

In any census return are there any siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents or mother living with him?

What was your chap's occuaption? - Anything that may have left a paper trail?

[julielou2]

Most parishes have submitted their registers to the local register office so I would start at Manchester, https://www.gmcro.co.uk/ and see what records they hold.

That's a great link Neil, thank you. I've found a fab site at https://www.manchester.gov.uk/site/sc...documentID=464. The only thing is that I don't know which parish any of the other births would have been registered at. The church where Thomas WILLIAMSON was married did not open until 15 years after he had been born and although I know he married at St Catherine in Collyhurst/Newtown in North Manchester, I don't know where in Manchester he was born. He died in Whalley Range nr Withington which is South Manchester.

Would I be right in assuming that to be sure of getting the correct birth I need to order the other 3 remaining possible birth certificates and then for each of the 5 possible certificates, work through the parish records of all buildings of worship near to where he was born? Gosh, that's a lot of work and expense. Still I guess this is where family history gets REALLY time consuming (and expensive).

Do any census returns tie down the birthplace of your chap?

Hello Geoffers and thank you for your response too.

Yes I do know where Thomas hails from as he is consistently described as being born in Manchester on all the censuses I'm confident as being correct. A particular suburb of Manchester is not mentioned unfortunately.

Who were the witnesses to his wedding? - Any relatives who can be traced?

One witness is the bride's father. The other witness is someone called Mary Taylor Adams - I will try and track her down to see if she is a relative or friend of either bride or groom. Thank you, I hadn't thought of that.

In any census return are there any siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents or mother living with him?

Nope, only Thomas, his wife, sons, daughters and servants from 1871 through to 1901. The only one I haven't checked is the 1911 census where I know Thomas WILLIAMSON has died but his wife Elizabeth is living with her daughter, Florence.

What was your chap's occuaption? - Anything that may have left a paper trail?

The censuses describe him as: Salesman - 1871; Buyer of Cotton Goods - 1881; Commission Agent Manchester Trade & Employed - 1891 and Cotton Goods Merchant & Employer 1901.

A newly found cousin from this branch of my family has mentioned that the WILLIAMSONs were involved in the roller blind business on one twig and developing linoleum on the other twig. My grandfather was certainly involved in the sales of textiles in the early 20th century.

Does anyone know if anything in any of the above might provide a clue to the identity of his mother or father?

[Xantippe]

He may well have been baptised in the Cathedral, many people were so he wouldn't show up on a Parish register. What was his address when he got married?

Where is he living on the census records you have found. That might be a clue as to where he was from. Have you tried looking for his witnesses on the census? They may have been neighbours and your chaps name was mis-transcribed.

You may well find him in a Directory of Manchester too. Especially at the time he got married. He may have been living in Collyhurst. That might be another clue. Difficult with a popular name, but not insurmountable I would have thought. You know his occupation.

Best of luck,
Kris

[Mutley]

Hello, it always helps if you give the census references. I know it is nothing to do with your original question but if someone does go looking they need to build up a picture of your family first before they work backwards. I seem to spend a lot of time going sidewards.

There is a Thomas and Elizabeth living in Moss Side in 1891. Are they yours? RG12; Piece: 3200; Folio 5; Page 3

Next door but one is a family called Taylor. James the head, is Secretary to Cotton ??? Co. It is possible that there was a marriage between the two families and a connection. This may seem pointless but you never know, James's wife Rosa, could end up to be Thomas's sister.

I cannot sort out dates, not sure if you gave a date for Thomas's marriage.

I'll stop blathering now until I know I am looking at the correct Thomas

[julielou2]

Where is he living on the census records you have found. That might be a clue as to where he was from. Have you tried looking for his witnesses on the census? They may have been neighbours and your chaps name was mis-transcribed.

You may well find him in a Directory of Manchester too. Especially at the time he got married. He may have been living in Collyhurst. That might be another clue. Difficult with a popular name, but not insurmountable I would have thought. You know his occupation.

Hello Xantippe and thank you for your response. From his marriage certificate I've got him resident before his marriage at Providence Place, Rochdale Road. There is a Rochdale Road which runs through Collyhurst. He married at St Catherine church in Newton (now Collyhurst) His bride was resident at 161 Rochdale Road according to the marriage certificate. On the 1871 census (first which I'm confident in as it shows his wife Elizabeth) he was living at 41 Hamilton Street in the Ecclesiastical parish of Albert Memorial which was in Collyhurst. By 1881, he'd moved to South Manchester to 43 Hulton (or Hylton) Street in Moss Side, Chorlton/Hulme, Manchester. On the 1891 census, he was still at Hulton Street. I've found a modern Hulton Street equidistant between Moss Side and Salford which I guess could be the correct place. By 1901, Thomas and Elizabeth lived 3 Alexandra Road South, Whalley Range/Withington.

Hello, it always helps if you give the census references. I know it is nothing to do with your original question but if someone does go looking they need to build up a picture of your family first before they work backwards. I seem to spend a lot of time going sidewards.

There is a Thomas and Elizabeth living in Moss Side in 1891. Are they yours? RG12; Piece: 3200; Folio 5; Page 3

Hello Mutley, sorry for not putting the references of the censuses. I am happy that my chap is shown on:

1871 - RG10/4049/153/19
1881 - RG11/3938/35/4
1891 - RG12/3200/5/3
1901 - RG13/3672/17/26.

His marriage certificate transcript is:

Certificate of: Williamson, Thomas & Bollom, Elizabeth Ann - MXE 045780
Date: 25 Dec 1865
Where Married: Parish Church, St Catherine, Newton, Manchester
When Married: 25 Dec 1865
Names & Surnames: Thomas Williamson & Elizabeth Ann Bollom
Ages: 21 & 19
Condition: Batchelor & Spinster
Rank or Profession: Warehouseman (?)& -
Residence at Time of Marriage: 4 Providence Place, Rochdale Road & 161 Rochdale Road
Fathers' Names: Dead & James Bollom
Rank or Profession of Father: Dead & Tea Dealer
Witnesses: James Bollom, Mary Taylor Adams

Next door but one is a family called Taylor. James the head, is Secretary to Cotton ??? Co. It is possible that there was a marriage between the two families and a connection. This may seem pointless but you never know, James's wife Rosa, could end up to be Thomas's sister.

I cannot sort out dates, not sure if you gave a date for Thomas's marriage.

I'll stop blathering now until I know I am looking at the correct Thomas

That's very interesting indeed about the Taylor family head especially when one of the witnesses on Thomas and Elizabeth's marriage was Mary Taylor Adams.

I'll be hunting that down tonight when I'm at home.

[Xantippe]

There is a Thomas Willamson on the 1851 census
HO 107/2226/349/71

9 Sutton Street. St Judes Parish Manchester

Williamson Thomas 44 Labourer
Elizabeth 42
Ellen 12
Robert 13
Thomas 7

I have no idea where St Jude's Parish is.

There is another in Heaton Norris, near Stockport
2 Queen Street.
HO 107/2255/389/30

Thomas 42 Warper Cotton bn Manchester
Ellen 35 -''- bn Yorkshire (I can't read where)
Thomas 8 )
John 6 )all born Heaton Norris
Ellen 5 )


Either of these yours perhaps?