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  1. #1
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    Default Approximate date of this photo?



    Family lore has it that this is a photo of my nan's aunt, Ellen Hancock, who was born in 1886.

    I've been doing a bit of research and this is what I've come up with....

    I've just received the marriage certificate of Ellen Hancock and Claude Stanley Cadel who were married in 1911 in Poplar. You can just about make out on the photo that the photographer was in Thornton Heath (name of Laver), and I have found 2 births with the surname Cadel and mother's maiden name of Hancock in Croydon (very near Thornton Heath). They are Bernard C Cadel (1916) and Norman L Cadel (1921).

    My theory is that this photo was taken for Norman's christening, so 1921 (he was born Q1).

    Just looking for opinions on whether:

    a) dress for early 1920s about right
    b) difference in age of the 2 kids about right for those births

    I've posted about this picture on here before about the possibility that the 2 children (or at least the older one) was male despite wearing a dress and was given lots of info on this being quite likely (I think facially it looks more like a boy than a girl).

    Through searches of The Times and the London Gazette I've pieced together a fair bit of information on the Cadels - they had a lead/copper company which later evolved into a plumbers merchants I believe. I've also established that the younger son, Norman, had quite an army career and found reference to him being a Major in 1959. I've also thought the fact that if this is c. 1921 and Claude Cadel is still in army uniform he was more of an army man than just enlisting for WW1, if you see what I mean, and this might tie in with son(s) being in the army. (I've found references to Bernard being in the army in WW2 but not after.)

    Anyway, thoughts/opinions would be appreciated please.

  2. #2
    Marie C..
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    Agree absolutely.
    Boys were dressed in frocks until the age of two at least. I have a photo of grandparents (she born 1885 and he 1874) with their two sons(my father,born 1906 and his brother 1908) taken at about the same ages as your babies. Two boys of about 1 and 3 in frocks. M

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    The army uniform is known as service dress and looks right for 1914-1920 period and later; there seems to be a medal ribbon above his left upper pocket. Is there something showing on his upper left arm? The cap badge is possibly Royal Artillery.
    Hope this helps.
    D

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by daggers View Post
    The army uniform is known as service dress and looks right for 1914-1920 period and later; there seems to be a medal ribbon above his left upper pocket. Is there something showing on his upper left arm? The cap badge is possibly Royal Artillery.
    Hope this helps.
    D
    Yep, it is Royal Artillery. I posted on here a while back when I was trying to identify the cap badge. Unfortunately the picture isn't clear enough and he is standing in shadows to be able to see anything else any clearer.

    I've tried looking for service/pension records but nothing coming up so far, although I have found his brother Archibald's records!

  5. #5
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    Well that's a turn up for the books! Was just looking through brother Archibald's service records and it turns out that he was married to Ellen's sister Elizabeth! So now I have been able to tick 2 of the Hancock sisters off my 'what happened next' list

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    I see there are three Cadels listed in the medal index cards at the National Archives, who served in the RFA and must have been overseas for at least part of WW1: Arthur, Augustus and Evan. No Claude, though. Perhaps related in some way?
    D

  7. #7
    Geoffers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jane_Adams
    Yep, it is Royal Artillery...........I've tried looking for service/pension records but nothing coming up so far
    If this was 1921 and he was then still in the army, you will probably have to apply to the MoD for his servcie record - see the Veterans' Agency site

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    I don't think it's unusual to see male children dressed like that - we have a photo of twins in a pram from the 1950s both dressed in this way. Weren't they simply known as smocks?

    Browneyes

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    Smile Photographer - George Arthur Laver

    Hello, I'm new to this so apologies if my website etiquette isn't all it should be.
    George Arthur Laver, the photographer was my Great great Uncle, the brother of my Great grandmother. He was a photographer right up until the 40's as far as anybody can remember. The family lived at 7 Bensham Manor Road in Croydon and just as a point of interest that may or may not be relevent to you, a lot of our family were christened and married at Holy Trinity Church in Selhurst. I know George did a lot of work in that area so your photograph you have may well be that church. We have family photos still in existence taken by George that go back as early as 1908 so your photo could even be as early as that. Hope this helps, and thanks for mentioning George. It made my day seeing one of his photos online!

    All the best

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdwingfield View Post
    Hello, I'm new to this so apologies if my website etiquette isn't all it should be.
    George Arthur Laver, the photographer was my Great great Uncle, the brother of my Great grandmother. He was a photographer right up until the 40's as far as anybody can remember. The family lived at 7 Bensham Manor Road in Croydon and just as a point of interest that may or may not be relevent to you, a lot of our family were christened and married at Holy Trinity Church in Selhurst. I know George did a lot of work in that area so your photograph you have may well be that church. We have family photos still in existence taken by George that go back as early as 1908 so your photo could even be as early as that. Hope this helps, and thanks for mentioning George. It made my day seeing one of his photos online!

    All the best
    Oh wow! That's fantastic! It did vaguely cross my mind if any of George's relatives might be able to give any info from that perspective, but I didn't really expect it to happen! Ages ago I did actually look into the Laver family on the off chance that it threw up a connection (it didn't).

    I've done more research since my original post, and I'm now pretty sure that it was taken in 1921 for the younger boy's christening. I've also found out that in the 1930s and later, they lived in Sanderstead which isn't that far from Selhurst so you could be right about that church!

    I've just looked again at the picture, at the embossed details for the photographer and it says 'something Manor Road, Thornton Heath' so guess that's Bensham. It's quite hard to make out as the embossing is fairly faint and it's over the bottom right hand corner, and the print of her dress.

    Thank you so much for giving me that little bit of background info

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