LILLEY, BROWN or maybe something else

[Landofrainbows]

My own grandmother is proving a brick wall. On her marriage certificate she is Rhoda LILLEY, father William LILLEY, but nothing comes up in birth searches for 8th October 1884. Her Mother we believe was previously BROWN, but The husband John BROWN dies in 1882. Mother turns up again getting married to William LILLEY in 1887, her name being Mary Ann NEATH at this point. Where and in what circumstances was Rhoda, later to become LILLEY born? She is in the 1991 census as Rhoda BROWN

[Sue Mackay]

Where and in what circumstances was Rhoda, later to become LILLEY born? She is in the 1991 census as Rhoda BROWN

Can you either give us the reference for Rhoda BROWN in 1891 or tell us where she was living and where it says she was born? I couldn't immediately track down a Rhoda BROWN living with a William LILLEY, but as there were so many Rhoda BROWNs it would help to have a county at least.

[Landofrainbows]

The reference for the 1891 census is RG12/2296 Folio 57 No2bCourt 7 Tower St Dudley. She is supposed to have been born in the Dudley area, but it may have been Staffordshire, or worcestershire, The Lilley in the census is spelt Lily, but other family members tally and there are christening records for some other family members.

[bumblebee]

I have been going around in circles with the Lilleys, Neaths and Browns.

Mary Ann Neath married William Lilley 1887, going by the 1891 census Mary Ann was born 1833.

John Brown and Mary Ann (with the Brown children ie. Esther and co) was born 1842,

Do you think that William Lilley married Mary Ann Neath - there is a Mary Ann Neath around who would fit and took in the Brown children as their own because they were related in some way.

Bumblebee

[bumblebee]

Just a few reference points.

1871 The Browns

Dudley,

Ct 4 14 Oakey Wells? Street

Esther A Brown 2 born Worcestershire, Dudley
John Brown 43 Bricklayer born Staffordshire, West Bromwich
Mary A Brown 29 Born Staffordshire, West Bromwich,
Sarah Brown 8 months, Born Worcestershire, Dudley

RG10; Piece: 3011; Folio: 102; Page: 17


1881 The Browns

Dudley, 12a Campbell Street

Bertha Brown 10 months born Dudley
Edward Brown 4 born Dudley
Esther A. Brown 12 born Dudley
John Brown 54 Labourer, born Staffs, West Bromwich
Mary A. Brown 39 born Staffs, West Bromwich.

Class: RG11; Piece: 2877; Folio: 61; Page: 19;



1891 The Lilleys and Browns

Bertha Brown 12 born Dudley
Edward Brown 14 born Dudley
Esther Brown 22 born Dudley
Mary A Lily 58 Washerwoman born Staffordshire, West Bromwich
Rhoda Brown 8 born Dudley
William Lily 62 born Dudley

RG12; Piece: 2296; Folio 57; Page 27

Bumblebee

[bumblebee]

Can you give us the details from the marriage certificate of Mary Ann Neath and William Lilley, any other names on the certificate, who did Mary Ann give as her father, what was her age. Who were the witnesses.

Bumblebee

[blue eyes]

Theres a birth for a Rhoda Brown year 1883 district Hinckley county Leicestershire/Warwickshire. Though not sure how far it is from Dudley.

[Marie C..]

Esther Ann Brown was born 24th July 1868 and baptised at St. Thomas Dudley 29th March 1874! I expect most of the others were baptised there but can't find them(or the marriage of Mary Ann Neath and John Brown but I guess it's somewhere there. Lots of Browns and Neaths bap. /married at St. Thomas's
But since John Brown died in 1882 and Rhoda was born 1883 then Rhoda would have probably been Mr. Brown's child and Mary Ann married mr. Lilley sometime afterwards(or before the birth) and so Rhoda would have considered Mr. Lilley her father.
Marie
William Lilley christened 02 Aug 1829 st. Thomas' Dudley parents William Lilley and Mary.
Same old names!
Lots of lillies baptised at St. Thomas Dudley

[Landofrainbows]

Do you have a ref for this entry? On her marriage on December 12 1909. , (Wathamstow Essex Col 53) Her age is given as 25. I have 8 oct 1884 as her birthdate, but think this came from my mother.

[Landofrainbows]

In answer to Bumblebee.
The details we have of Mary Ann Neaths Marriage to William Lilley are as follows:

25th July 1887 St Andrews Netherton
William Lilley 57 Widower, Labourer, Dudley Father given as deceased
Mary Ann Neath 47 Widow, Dudley, Father Edward Matthews Puddler
Witnesses: James Round, Eliza Male

In 1868 June 1/4
Mary Ann Matthews married John Brown.

All other bits seem to fit but where the 'Neath' comes from, I've no idea.