Matthews family - Plymouth/Devonport/Stoke Damerel area

[CanadianCousin]

I'm trying to find the family of my 3xg-grandmother, Mary Ann Matthews, born abt. 1782. Here's what I know:

• Mary Ann Matthews married Richard Perrott at Plymouth St. Andrews on June 29, 1802.
• Witnesses to the marriage were Thomas Matthews and Thomas Richards. I'm guessing that Thomas Matthews was a relative of Mary Ann's - possibly her father or brother?
• Richard and Mary Ann lived in Bridgetown, Berry Pomeroy, where Richard was a shoemaker (it was also his birth place).
• The couple had nine children (8 boys and 1 girl) between 1803 and 1822; mother's name was variously recorded as Mary, Marian and Mary Ann in the parish register (lots of variation in the surname spelling as well).
• In the 1851 census, Mary Ann was a 69 year-old widow living with her son John; her birthplace was given as Stoke Damerel.
• Mary Ann died March 11, 1852 at age 70.
• Thomas Matthews - who may have been the witness at Mary Ann's wedding - is listed as a boot and shoemaker in Plymouth Dock in an 1823 trades directory; he is also listed in the 1830 Pigot's Directory of Devon (I think in Devonport, although I don't have the CD with me at the moment). For some reason, Thomas is not listed in other local trade directories I have checked in the same period.

It occurred to me that Richard might have been an apprentice with Thomas (as both were shoemakers), which might explain how he and Mary Ann met. However, I don't have any apprenticeship records for either Richard or Thomas which might verify this.

I've found a couple of Mary Matthews baptisms in the IGI which might be hers, but without the middle name Ann it's difficult to be sure. I haven't been able to find any likely looking records for Thomas in the IGI.

If anyone has information on Mat(t)hews families in this area in the late 1700's, or can suggest other avenues to research, I'd be most grateful. Unfortunately as I'm in Canada, I can't get to the Devon Records Office in person.

Thanks -

Tim

[CanadianCousin]

It's been nearly three years since I originally posted this message, and I thought a nudge might bring it to the attention of someone who missed it the first time around (e.g., new members).

Thanks again -

Tim

[birdlip]

Hello Tim,

I'm not sure if this will help...but here are some thoughts. There seem to be half a dozen Mat(t)hews couples baptising children in Stoke Damerel in the time frame you're looking at;

William and Judith,
William and Catherine,
David and Ann,
Samuel and Elizabeth,
Joseph and Elizabeth, and
Thomas and Jane.

Thomas and Jane interested me, not only because of the Thomas name, but because they name a child Ann Lee Matthews on 12 April 1778 (I looked up the names of Richard and Mary Ann's children, and see that one of their boys is given LEE as a middle name too. I also noticed that they name their only daughter Jane.) I can only find two other children baptised in Stoke Damerel for Thomas and Jane;

12 April 1780 Phillis
Aug 1790 Jane

So no Mary or Mary Anne, but there is obviously a long gap after Phillis, it's likely there would have been others.

I could only find one marriage for a Thomas MATTHEWS and Jane in Devon, around this date, and lo and behold her maiden name is LEE:

Thomas MATTHEWS m Jane LEE 17 Jan 1774 Modbury, Devon. (On the road towards Bridgetown Berry Pomeroy)

and there are two more children, baptised in Modbury;

31 Jan 1774 Elizabeth
10 Jan 1788 Wilmott Symons

So...nothing definite, but I think Thomas and Jane would be strong candidates to be Mary Anne's parents.

What do you think?

[CanadianCousin]

THANK YOU birdlip!!!

It may take me a bit of time to follow up this lead, but it's the first one I've had since discovering Mary Ann's maiden name several years ago. Your reasoning seems to be sound, especially regarding the names of Richard and Mary Ann's children, Charles Lee and Jane (my 2xg-gf, who was born after Charles Lee's death, was also named Charles).

It had occurred to me that Mary Ann may have grown up in Stoke Damerel, but actually been born and/or baptised elsewhere (and possibly not aware of it). I will check out the marriage and two baptisms in Modbury to see if I can find any additional clues there, as well as other parishes in the South Hams.

I really appreciate your help and interest - thanks again!.

Tim

[birdlip]

You're welcome Tim, hopefully you'll be able to find some more children, especially the elusive Mary Ann. They may have baptised some children in Plymouth?

Anyway, let us all know what happens, won't you?

[birdlip]

I missed this one:

08 Sep 1775 Jane MATTHEWS Modbury Devon, Parents Thomas MATTHEWS and Jane

[CanadianCousin]

Assuming that there was only one couple in the area at the time named Thomas and Jane MATTHEWS (which has yet to be determined), it would appear that they had their first two children baptized in Modbury in 1774 and 1775, had the next one baptized in Stoke Damerel in 1780, went back to Modbury in 1788, then returned to Stoke D in 1790. My first thought is that they may have lived in Stoke for most of that time (at least from 1780 onwards), but took some of the children back to Jane's home parish for baptism (or Jane may have gone to her mother's to give birth, although until now I've only come across that for first-born children). I think my next move will be to contact the Modbury OPC to see if the baptism register says anything about Thomas and Jane's place of residence. If this conjecture proves correct, it could well be that my Mary Ann was born in Stoke, but was baptized elsewhere, or was born and baptized elsewhere, but assumed she was born in Stoke since that was where she grew up.

Whatever the outcome proves to be, it's great having a lead to follow - thanks!

Tim

P.S. I will certainly post when I find out anything one way or the other

[CanadianCousin]

You're welcome Tim, hopefully you'll be able to find some more children, especially the elusive Mary Ann. They may have baptised some children in Plymouth?

Anyway, let us all know what happens, won't you?

Among other things, holidays give you a chance to catch up on 'to do' tasks, genealogical and otherwise. An item in the most recent Lost Cousins newsletter reminded me that FMP now has records from the Plymouth & West Devon Records Office, so I decided to treat myself to some PPV credits and take another look for Mary Ann. Lo and behold, I quickly found the following (this is just a small portion of the full page image, so hopefully permitted):


Original Data from: Plymouth & West Devon Record Office Collection at FindMyPast

Assuming (!) that the baptism took place shortly after she was born, the date (late 1781) works out for my Mary Ann's age at death. As birdlip suggest in Post #3 of this thread, it seems most likely that Mary Ann's parents were the Thomas Matthews and Jane Lee who married at Modbury on 17 January 1774. (I did find a Thomas Mathews marrying a Jane Scott in Mamhead in September 1776, but this is farther from Plymouth than Modbury, and doesn't account for the names of Mary Ann and Richard's children) .

So where was Mary Ann baptized? Unfortunately, the image doesn't make this clear - I'm wondering if this might be a Bishop's Transcript, as it looks much neater than most parish registers I've seen. The transcription on FMP (© brightsolid online publishing ltd) states, in part:

Dedication: Charles
Place: Plymouth
County: Devon
Page: 192
Record source: Baptism Register - Transcripts

which I'm guessing is Charles the Martyr in Plymouth. Any comments, suggestions or clarifications will be gratefully received.

Thanks again birdlip for steering me in the right direction - it looks as if this brickwall is finally starting to crumble.

Tim

[terrysfamily]

Thomas MATTHEWS m Jane LEE 17 Jan 1774 Modbury, Devon. (On the road towards Bridgetown Berry Pomeroy)

and there are two more children, baptised in Modbury;

31 Jan 1774 Elizabeth
10 Jan 1788 Wilmott Symons

Taken from the Modbury Parish Records

Matthews Willmot Symons f Jul 24 1789 Thomas Jane

Notes
Privately baptised at Stoke 10 Jan 1788 where the duty was paid and admitted into this church 24 July 1789

Looking through the archives on this forum, I came across a thread as to why children were sometimes privately baptised. It said that if the child was sickly and may not live then it was baptised privately. Then, at a later date, if the child survived it was admitted into the church.

Terry

[birdlip]

Thanks again birdlip for steering me in the right direction - it looks as if this brickwall is finally starting to crumble.

Tim

Aha...excellent, well done!