WILLIAM CONSTABLE Born Surrey abt 1775

[spruso]

Hi,
Trying to find:
1. Marriage date for William Constable and Letitia
2. Birthdate and place for both.
3. Death date and place for William

William Constable:
1841 Census shows age as 66 ( So possibly born 1775 )
Occ. in 1841 Census: Labourer.
Living at Brickfield St, Carshalton.
Born in Surrey.
(Name of family listed as "Constalle" instead of Constable)
Possible death in 1840's but unable to narrow down.

Wife; Letitia ( Surname unknown)
Birthdate and place unknown.(Not born in Surrey according to 1841 Census)
I have her Death Cert. which gives her death as 6 Dec 1849 at Carshalton, Surrey.
Witness: Louisa JELLY (Daughter)

Children were born in Beddington with Wallington, Norwood, and Carshalton between 1804 and 1829.
Sophia 1804, William 1807, Mary Ann 1811, John 1817, Thomas 1820, Ann 1822,
Louisa 1827: All born Beddington.
Elizabeth 1814, Eliza 1829, born in Carshalton.
All births from OPR's for Beddington and Carshalton.
James 1808, Norwood Surrey. (IGI)

No marriage or birth found in Bedd.or Carsh.OPRs for William (1775).
Couldn't find in Surrey Marriage Register.

Two William Constables appear on the Familysearch website as being married at Capel, Surrey on 23 March 1813. This is an incorrect transcription from the Capel OPR. and the Microfiche. A different William Constable and Elizabeth Upfold was the only marriage.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Cheers
Spruso

[Jan1954]

I have deleted the duplicate post in the Brickwalls forum.

This is so as to not cause confusion with people who are replying to a post where an answer may already have been given.

[birdlip]

Hi Spruso,

I think you could narrow it down to three possibilities for Williams death;

Mar 1842 Constable William Thomas Croydon 4 [65]0
Mar 1843 Constable William Epsom 4 79
Sep 1849 Constable William Epsom 4 237

Croydon includes Beddington, Epsom includes Carshalton, eeny meeny miney mo...they were in Carshalton in 1841, and Letitia dies in Carshalton in Dec 1849, but Louisa marries in Croydon in 1848;

Sep 1848 Constable Louisa m Joseph Jelly Croydon 4 85

Just a thought...I'm wondering if you've looked in Kent for the marriage? It was usual for the marriage to take place in the brides parish, and Letitia in 1841 is shown as not b in Surrey. The county boundary closest to Carshalton and Beddington is Kent. In fact Norwood, which you have down as James's place of baptism is only about a kilometre away from Sydenham, which is over the border into Kent.

Curiously though, I had a look on IGI, and I can only find an entry for James b in 1808, bap in 1809 at St John Baptist, Croydon, not Norwod. Not sure where you found the reference to Norwood?

regards birdlip

[spruso]

Hi Birdlip,

The William in 1843 is the grandson of William Constable. he was killed in a fire in Carshalton aged 5.(Carsh.OPR)
I have the DC for William 1849 and he is shown as 83 years old which would make him born 1866. I think it may be too old and also I could not ID the witness.(Frustrating!).
So William 1842 may be the go.

James is shown in the 1851 Census as born in Norwood but the 1861/71 states Carshalton.( I haven't checked the Croydon OPR )

I remember checking marriage registers for adjacent counties to Surrey but can't recall if I did Kent.
This couple is a real pain!

I have pasted the info below for James who was married twice.

Born at Norwood Surrey (1851 Census,) 2 miles NE of Croydon Surrey
(b 1861 and 1871 Census says born Carshalton)
Occupation: Oil Cake maker
(Oil cake is what's left from vegetable sources (linseed, olives, soy beans etc.) which are pressed for oil production. The remaining "cake" is commonly used for stock feed).

1841 Census shown as " Cunslulle" not "Constable"

Ist Marriage to Jane,(surname unknown) around 1829. ( Jane born about 1806? )
Marriage date and place not found.

Possible deaths
CONSTABLE Jane
June 1/4 1845 Southk St George 4 293 (Cannot locate OPR)
Sept. ¼ 1849 Stepney 2 670 (Not listed on OPR)
Dec ¼ 1849 Stepney 2 372. OPR Film says aged 51 (1798) Too old.

Daughter Jane born 14th Mar 1830 Carshalton Surrey. LDS Website
Daughter Jane may have married George Agates in 1851 (LDS Website and Free BDM Site)
She appears on the 1841 and 1851 Census as living at home (Manning St Carshalton) but is missing from the 1861 Census.{ Moved overseas?}
1841 appears as "Cunslulle"

2nd Marriage for James
ELIZABETH RICHARDS
19 MAY 1850 Saint Dunstan, Stepney, London, England

Thanks for you help,
Cheers
Spruso

[birdlip]

How frustrating! Spruso, you've obviously done an enormous amount of work on this already. I can't really think what to suggest that you haven't probably already tried.

I had a look at the Surrey NBI, to see if I could find the Croydon Wm in 1842, the closest I could find was a Wm Constable dying age 75 in Leatherhead in 1843.

I expect you've already looked for a will for William? By the way, what was his occupation in 1841?

The only other thing I can think of at the moment, is what you're already doing... checking sideways to find all the children in all the census returns to see if an elderly maternal aunt or uncle can be found that might give a clue as to Letitias place of birth. Also checking witnesses on marriage certificates. The trouble is, Wm was already in his sixties by 1841, which makes it harder.

I'll keep thinking...

p.s. The grandson aged five that died in a fire made me shudder. Poor little fellow! I have a grandson that age.

[spruso]

Hi Birdlip,

I haven't looked for a Will. Never thought they would have had one. How do I do that?

His occupation in the 1841 Census is labourer. Most of the male children became "agricultural labourers". I wondered if they might have moved around for seasonal work but they seem to have stayed in Carshalton or Limehouse for most of the 19thC.

I have contacted the Sutton Library that holds all the Family History stuff for Carshalton etc. They do research for ten pound a half hour. I might have to spend 40 pound or so and see what they come up with. Sometimes they hold thngs like Rate Books and Hospital Records. Maybe they will turn up something.

Cheers for now.
Spruso.