RN, Merchant Navy or Civilian?

[v.wells]

I received 3 certs Monday - All the correct ones, so I now have:
1908 Thomas Patrick Walsh to parents Thomas Patrick Walsh and Mary Catherine Walsh (O'Shea)
Daniel Walsh 1910 same parents
James Walsh 1915 same parents
Michael Walsh 1917 same parents

Marriage cert 1906 Thomas Patrick Walsh (b 1878) to Mary Catherine O'Shea, both of Canning Town, St. Margarets & All Saints Roman Catholic Church, Barking Rd, West Ham & Essex.

Marriage cert states Thomas was a Ship's Fireman; in 1908 Thomas was a Ship's Fireman living at Hosper Rd Custom House, Canning Town, West Ham; in 1910 he is a labourer; in 1915 Seaman (Merchant Services), Tidal Basin; in 1917 he was a Ship's Greaser at Hemsworth St. Tidal Basin, Silvertown, West Ham CB.

Now the problem - I can't find anything on the Honour Roll at Merchant Navy or CWCG WW1 or 2 and nothing under civilian deaths. No Pension/Medal cards. I found a possible Able Seaman at Gillingham Kent 1901 census which states birth place as Cork Ireland (which seems logical as his father, Michael was in Africa (the Buffs) when he and his older brother Michael John, were born). AND I found on CWGC Thomas Walsh, died age 38, 1943 (could very well be son Thomas Patrick).

How do I find Thomas P Walsh b 1878 and who died WW1 - with the occupations listed above, was he Navy or Merchant Navy or civilian ?

[ChristineR]

Even though it was war time he might not have been required to enlist because of his occupation. So if he died of natural causes or an accident unrelated to the war, he is not going to be in any lists. If he was enlisted then you should have found some sign of him.

You answered your own question - it says he is a seaman in the Merchant Services in 1915. So that is not Navy. Have you looked in Seaman's registers?

I didn't go looking for your other posts on the subject to refresh my memory, but how can you be certain that he died during WW1?

Christine

[Squaredancer]

I think I'm getting a little confused. Is this the same Thomas Patrick Walsh you mentioned in an earlier thread, who was killed at the Battle of the Somme, in 1916?

This is the bit I can't get my head round:

in 1917 he was a Ship's Greaser at Hemsworth St. Tidal Basin, Silvertown, West Ham CB.

I'm probably missing something - bit dozy at this time of night!

[v.wells]

Please disregard the Battle of the Somme - that was my mistake - I confused the issue with someone else in my other line- But yes he is the same Thomas Patrick Walsh as mentioned in the other thread and my grandmother (his sister) wrote down he died during WW1. It is on 2 documents she wrote but didn't mention what role he played in the War.

I will check Seaman's Register's again and see if something jumps out at me.

[ChristineR]

If his death was not related to wartime, except as being used as a time frame for his death, then one would expect him to be still around the West Ham area.

You need to check out every death in the GRO index of that name for 1917 & 1918. After that, you are out of the official WW1 time frame.

But, you are making progress by establishing that he was still alive in 1917! or was he Did he register the birth?

The seaman's register should tell you what ship he was working on, and then you can see where that ship went.

What was the actual wording of your grandmother's notes? killed in WW1 or died in WW1 - I think that makes a big difference - and was it in or about WW1?

Christine

[v.wells]

"Thomas was killed in WW1 leaving behind his wife and children all in London" is what my grandmother wrote.

Have previously checked 1915-21 in GRO but will do so again.

The 1915 birth cert was in fact registered by a Ellen Walsh, present at the birth (whom, I have no idea who she is related to) - not Mary Catherine's nickname - I am trying to find her in 1901 as may be a cousin or aunt or coincental name of midwife. All births were registered within 30-40 days of births. The 1917 birth cert says he was Ship's Greaser and Mary Catherine registered the birth.