SEARL AND SANDO in Maker

[njap53]

As promised...

Hannah:

District Stoke Damorel, 1867 death in the sub district of Stoke in the county of Devon

Number 182 2nd Oct 1867 Workhouse, Hannay Gurney, female, 56 years, widow of __ Gurney a __, cause Choreas 12 months apoplexy and paralysis - 2 days - certified, informant F.P Gruzelier (unclear) in attendance workhouse, Stoke Damorel, registered 11th Oct 1867

and

James:

District Stoke Damorel, 1859 death in the sub-district of Clowance in the county of Devon

Number 447 3rd Jan 1860 at 2 (may be 9, unclear) Canterbury St, James Gurney, male, 60 years, Chelsea Pensioner (*see note), cause Phthisis long standing certified, informant Thirza Ann Craig of 101 Navy Row, Devonport present at the death, registered 5th Jan 1860

* Chelsea Pensioner - not the red coated sort that live at the Chelsea Hospital in London but a term then applied to anyone receiving a military pension.

[judipete]

Hi Nick,
Thank you so much for all your information especially the death certificates of Hannah and James Gurney. I noted that your George was born around the time of William's death. Is this your understanding? Carol, on this thread is a descendent of Thirza Ann Craig, if I recall correctly. If there is any information relating to the Searl family that I have in our Searl family database, that would help you, do not hesitate to ask. It is best to be specific, as there is so much of it. Thanks again
Judith

[njap53]

Hi Judith, on the assumption you mean William b 1836, I have no specific death date although I have a note which says

William shown as deaf & dumb - no census entries after 1851. A William Gurney died 2nd Q. 1857 in Stoke D.

Other information (I think this completes what I have) are the following notes. Be aware that I wrote this some time ago and haven't necessarily updated it also they are my suppositions and unchecked against previous posts:

George Gurney's parents were - James Gurney (b. circa 1794 Bedfordshire? - d. late 1860, Stoke Damorel/Devonport) and Hannah Holmes Gurney (nee Searle, b. 1811 Maker, Cornwall - d. late 1867 Stoke Damorel). They were married on 2nd May 1833.


In the 1841 census they were living in Exeter - parish of St Sidwells (Clifton ? - looks like Drive but now there's only Road, Street or Hill) with Thursa (7), William (5) and Emily (2) - b. 1834, 1836 and 1839 respectively.

In 1851 census they are living in Water Lane, Stoke Damorel with Thursa, William & Emily, also Eliza (9 - b. 1842) and Matthew (3 - b. 1848). Thursa is shown as born in Ireland, William shown as deaf & dumb and born in Stonehouse (Plymouth), Emily shown as born in Paignton, Eliza born in Exeter, Matthew born in Devonport.

James is listed as a labourer - possibly he was a railway navvy, it's the right kind of time to be following the Great Western Railway down the line.


Thursa Ann married William Henry Craig in 1856
censuses show:
(1861) at 33 Gloucester St with (son) William Henry (b. 1858 d. 1883) & (son) James David (b.1861 d 1908.). (WH - ?????? at sea??)
(1871) at 16 William St with (husband) William (gunner {followed something that looks like 'late'} R.N.) age 42, James D 9 (Morice Town, an area of Devonport) and Charles Ernest (1867) 4. Thursa is shown as having been born in Cork.
(1881) at 16 William St (a widow, she's listed as a Cook, Domestic Servant) with Charles E. - sister Emily also living there.
In 1882 she appears to have married again to George Head and she died in 1887 aged about 53.
William Craig must have died between 1871 & 1881.



William G - no census entries after 1851. A William Gurney died 2nd Q. 1857 in Stoke D.


Emily
(1861) ?
(1871) at 22 Garden St, Stoke D. with brother Matthew H. (she appears to be a Mangler, he's a basket maker)
(1881) at 16 William St, Stoke D. with Thursa. Profession is a chair caner.
(1891) living on own means, 3 Clarence Pl. Stoke D. (in single room - multiple occ.)
(1901) at 34 Alcester St, Devonport on 'parish pay'
Died 2nd Q 1904 aged 64


Eliza - no census entries after 1851. An Eliza Gurney died 3rd Q. 1855 in Stoke D.


Matthew Henry
(1861) ?
(1871) at 22 Garden St, Stoke D. with sister Emily. Shown as a basket maker
Married Louisa James (b. 1853/54) of Gwinnear, Cornwall in early 1881.
(1881) shown as Henry and Louisa 21 St James St, Penzance. Louisa born at Gwenapp
(1891)at 20 St James St Penzance with Hannah (1883) & Henry (1885)
(1901) ditto with Hannah J. (1883) Henry J. (1886) and Gladys (1893)

[carolm]

It's interesting to find other descendants of the James Gurney and Hannah Holmes Searl family. I'm descended from Thirza, their eldest child. I have details of 8 children in all, born between 1834 and 1857.
The second child, William, died June 11, 1857. His death certificate notes that he had epilepsy from birth. The 1851 census classified him as "deaf and dumb."
Emily was the third child, born May 3, 1839 in Paignton, and died unmarried, aged 64 in Plymouth on June 27, 1904. Her brother, Matthew Henry, was in attendance at her death.
Eliza, the furthe child, was burn January 11, 1842, in Exeter. She married William J. Roberts in 1860, and they had at least 5 children.
Matthew Henry "Harry" (1848-1921) married and lived in Cornwall and had several children.
Two little boys died young: James Joseph (1845-1851), or com;plications from scarlatina (German Measles),and Samuel Thomas (1852-1855) of pertussis (Whooping Cough).
And, George, born in 1857, you have details about.

From my line, Thirza Ann Gurney married William Henry Saunders Craig. Thier son Charles Ernest joined the Royal Navy and "left the service" in Canada to marry my grandmother, who grew up; in Nova Scotia.
If you are interested in further details of any of these, I,d be glad to try and supply.
I'm curious about whether any of George Gurney's children were musical, or became musicians. One of Matthew Henry Gurney,s sons, Henry James Gurney (born about 1885) was a "music trade apprentice" according to the 1901 census.

[njap53]

Hi Carol

Thanks for the extra information which fills in some gaps, and the interesting details of James Joseph and Samuel Thomas.

I have a few certificates which I'm happy to email copies of (as there doesn't appear to be a way of attaching files in this forum). I'll make a list of what I have in a day or so. It looks as though I can attach photos so some are jpgs (others pdf) and that might work instead.

As for the musical thought, I guess it's hard to say if there was anything in the genes bearing in mind that home entertainment over a century ago was basically home-made and would be far more common than we could imagine - although not necessarily quality music! My grandmother Doris, George's daughter, played piano and sang and I remember afternoons spent as a child when she would entertain us youngsters. She was also in the church choir and I think she may have played the organ sometimes but not regularly. My dad plays piano a little, and has been in the church choir for as long as I can remember and now plays organ there as well - but only in an amateur way (enough to accompany and play the occasional instrumental). I've been known to sing in amateur operatics and also play a little mandolin and guitar but I don't think it's because of it being hereditary, none of my siblings/nephews/neices have that kind of interest and my dad's late-brother wasn't any more musical than the average person in the street.

And while I think of it, I've had various folks applying their brains in another thread about James Gurney's roots. Here: http://www.british-genealogy.com/for...lace-ID-please It appears to be almost certain that he was in the 89th Foot regiment, joining in July 1813 aged 22 (est. d.o.b. 1791) and getting his discharge as a Corporal in 1834. That explains his death cert. description of Chelsea Pensioner (a general term applied to a military pension rather than it's specific use nowadays with the red-coated pensioners at the London 'Hospital'). The 89th served in India, returned to Devonport in 1831 (where James married Hannah) and went to Cork, Ireland in 1834 (where Thirza was born). So, Hannah went with the Regiment!

There is still no certainty about his place of birth, given as Smedley, Bedfordshire in the census, but Sturtly, Bedfordshire on his army papers, neither of which places appear to exist (now). The opinion on the other thread was that it might have been Streatley or possibly Shenley

Hope that's of interest, Nick

[carolm]

Hi Nick,
I've responded to the James Gurney thread where you raised the question (I have a copy of his discharge papers, see comments there). I have been wondering about regional accents, how a Bedfordshire man would have pronounced certain words?? Since he signed with an "x", he was not writing, but speaking, the place name.
Another potential family group to ask would be descendants of Eliza Gurney and William John Roberts. Rationale: this family stayed in Devonport, at least for her generation, and so had an opportunity to keep papers and records. Childrens' names I have are: William John, George, Florence, Eliza, Phoebe.
Hope this helps, Carol

[njap53]

Yes, how would he have pronounced it? I guess this is the Cornwall forum so really it needs to be asked on the Bedfordshire one and I'll do that using the other thread. I have friends wo lived in that county but waren't natives and are unlikely to be aware of it.

Apart from a list of Eliza and William's children I haven't yet managed to find time to dig down that route.

Thanks Nick

[chelle1957]

hi im related to Mathew Searl and Philippa Sando.. their granddaughter Mary Hannah Searl married William Emerson in Geelong Victoria Australia. in 1853. Please contact me for me information
Cheers
Roachelle

[chelle1957]

ive been thinking.. ? Looking at the childrens names of Mathew and Philippa it has me wondering if perhaps her mothers name or his mothers name was HOLMES.?
Also According to the 1841 Census Mathew stated that he was not born in the county of Devon.
may have to broaden our search for him.

Cheers
Roachelle