info from St. Philips church Lancashire

[mykin]

You have found James and his wife. When you said Hannah it had a familiar ring to it. I found a piece of paper that I had to go and get enlarged a lot. I don't know the year but it says....James Wroe...40....painter, some letter after painter. Hannah.....40. John....20....painter. I was given John as a son of Caleb James a while ago but he has to be James son, because Caleb's son was baptised in Nov. 6,*1851* at St. Silas (Caleb William) no birth date on him. I couldn't make out the address until you mentioned Dawson C.that's it. James surname was spelled Wroe which is right. What I don't understand is why Caleb James was working at a wine merchants at the age of 10. Robert Nixon's son was only 5, so maybe he needed him to do some kind of work for him.pretty sad! I don't know any of James children, but if John was 20 and Betsy was 2, sounds like a few are missing.This is excellent , you are so lucky to be able to see these books. How fortunate the records were kept. now to start and put all the pieces together. If I send for James & Hannah's marriage cert, then I will have their parents, hopefully. The first couple from 1719 could very well be my people. The name Wroe is rare. doe

[SharonK]

My previous message doesn't seem to have been posted correctly towards the end. It was meant to say that the Dawson Ct details are actually the 1841 census entry so this matches with the information you already had. The child called Betsy aged 2 may not be the daughter of James and Hannah as relationships are not stated on the 1841 census - she could be the daughter of the other member of the household John or another relation altogether!

While you say the name Wroe is rare it is transcribed a lot as Rowe, Row, Roe so with all the variations there are quite a lot! So the other entry of a James and Hannah marriage may be yours but its not certain.

Caleb as a male servant at the age of 10 is not really that unusual, children were often working at a very young age. In Lancashire a lot of them worked in the cotton industry.

[SharonK]

Continued.....these messages are posting really oddly!!

I don't look in books for the information. I have an Ancestry subscription and pay and annual subscriptions for access to lots of records. Another good source is the IGI (International Genealogical Index) which is compiled by the Latter Day Saints but the information can be patchy as not all records have been transcribed and even where some churches are covered not all years have been done.


You won't be able to send for James and Hannah's marriage certificate because a) we don't know when they married (the earlier entry I mentioned is obviously way too early as I misread it) and b) you can't get marriage certificates before 1837 when civil registration was introduced (and its likely that James and Hannah married before this date). Pre-1837 you must rely on parish records only.

I don't really know how much further I can take this but let me know if you need anything else specific.

Sharon

[mykin]

Hi again, I went online and couldn't find a church called Holy Trinity Salford. There is one on Chapel St. called Sacred Trinity Salford, and there is several Holy Trinity something else, not Salford. Where was it that you saw the name of where James baptism took place?
The name Wroe in a book of names I got out from the library, set the name Wroe aside from Roe,Rowe. It said "the rare dialectal spelling of Wroe, etc.
that's all.
I don't get much from family search (mormans/Latter day Saints)It is o.k. for starting out, and ancestry is $375. u.s. here, extremely expensive. If you would check the name of the church again I would really appreciate it. Thanks , doe

[SharonK]

Actually looking at it again - I found the possible baptism on FamilySearch - there are actually two entries - one which says James Wroe to Thos/Sarah Wroe, Holy Trinity Salford, 2 Apr 1793 and another which says James Wroe to Thomas/Sarah Wroe, Sacred Trinity Salford, 2 Apr 1792 - so obviously one of them is incorrect with the year and perhaps in those days the church was called Holy Trinity not Sacred Trinity, I don't know?

I am not saying the name Wroe is common, far from it, I'm sure it is pretty rare, its just that quite often with a name like that it can be transcribed wrongly. If for example they couldn't read or write and they said their name to the registrar or the census recorders they could easily take it as Row, Roe, Rowe and that's how it would appear in the records regardless of whether that's how its really spelt. It just means that when looking for records you can't wholly discount things that aren't spelt as Wroe.

[uksearch]

The correct name is Sacred Trinity but it is often referred to as Holy Trinity, however that's a story for another time.

UK

[Wirral]

Anybody heared of Wirral. I thought that she would have contributed to this thread. She doesn't seem to have been on for some time.

UK

Hi All
Don't want to brag (yes I do!), but I've just come back from a cruise on the Med.
Cheapside is one of the old streets in Liverpool, running between Tithebarn St & Dale St.
Doe, We have been in correspondence before. Is there anything that I said I would look up for you but haven't replied on yet? My memory is like a sieve these days (too much sunshine, food & alcohol?). I may have stuff written in my notebook, but you will have to jog my memory to help me find it.

[uksearch]

Why go the Med when you could have had a cruise here on the mainland ? Seriously, I really feel for those poor souls out there suffering the floods, power cuts and the water cut.

UK

[mykin]

Hi Wirral, It sounds like you had a great holiday, good for you, it is nice to get away from it all for a while.
No, you weren't looking anything up for me, we finished that, with a lot of help from pegasus.
I sent for the marriage record of Caleb James Wroe, b. 1830, West Derby, Lanc. He married Alice Laycock b.1824,Ewood Bridge, Lancashire. June 26,1848. In St. Philips church. They were living on Cheapside Rd.
All I have is *James* for the father,(a painter)of course no mother mentioned.
Caleb was his 1st son, so James was probably born late 1790's. Their church has been St. Peters up to that. Do you have any suggestions to find James wife. So far the name has kept the right spelling *Wroe* Too bad there aren't more census! any suggestion would be appreciated. doe

[Wirral]

I've looked through the Liverpool trade directories & there are only 2 mentions of James.

1829 & 1830 WROE James, painter & glazier, 18 Peter St.
After that, the next WROE entry is in 1837.
1837 WROE Matthew, joiner, 35 Cheapside; shop, Cheapside Alley.
1839 WROE Matthew, joiner, shop, 79 Cheapside.
1841, 1843, 1845, WROE Matthew, joiner & builder, 79 Cheapside; shop, Cheapside Alley, 41 Cheapside.
1847 WROE Matthew, joiner & builder, 79 Cheapside; shops, 10 Smithfield St & Cheapside Alley, 41 Cheapside.
1849 WROE Matthew, joiner & tripe dealer [?!], 79 Cheapside.
1855 WROE Caleb James, plumber & provision dealer, 3 Pembroke Gardens.

There are no WROEs in the directories from 1766 - 1827.