1851 census lookup please

[Sharon Medley]

Was wondering if someone would please see if they can find a Frederick GATES in the 1851 census for Shoreditch. I am trying to find my elusive Frederick Gates. I found a Frederick Gates in the 1861 census (who is about the right age) with his mother Elizabeth, showing to be a widow.
They appear in Shoreditch, sub dist 5 Haggerstone West, emumeration dist. 6H, folio 145 pg.47. address 19 Edward st., Shoreditch.
I know that Fredericks mother was named Elizabeth, father is stated to be James. Hoping this is the family that I am looking for.
Thank you in advance.
Sharon

[Mutley]

Sharon,
I am sorry I cannot find the reference you have given.
the districts in the 1861 census are:
Haggerstone West:
District 1
District 7
District 14
District 15
District 16
District 16e
District 18
District 18e
District 19e
District 20e

I cannot see 6H. Do you have the Piece Number, it would be RG9/???
Also do you have ages for Frederick and Elizabeth Gates. There are quite a few in the London area. If you have more information I will look again.

Regards Mutley

[Sharon Medley]

Mutley,
The 1861 piece # is 244.
Frederick shows age as 16, blacksmith Lab
Elizabeth shows 32, laundress
other children: William 10, Alfred 13, Henry 9 and George 7.
All the children were born in Shoreditch except Alfred who shows born in Islington. Elizabeth was born in Surrey.
Hope that helps.
Sharon

[Trish]

Sharon,

The surname on the 1861 image you reference looks more like GALE than GATES to me. Judging from the rest of the handwriting on the census sheet, the enumerator usually crossed his "ts". In this instance, he did not. As well, the name definitely doesn't have an "s" on the end. Sorry to say, I think this family may be the wrong one for you.

Trish

[Trish]

Here's the same family in 1851:

Census: 1851: HO107/1537 Folio 427 Page 20
Address: 19 Edward St, Shoreditch, Middlesex, England
-- William Gale Head Mar 28 Carpenter born: Middx Hackney
-- Elizabeth do Wife Mar 29* born: do St. George East
-- William do Son 8* Scholar born: do Shoreditch
-- Frederick do Son 6 do born: do do
-- Alfred do Son 3 born: do Islington
-- Henry Gale Son 3 m born: do Shoreditch

* Elizabeth seems to have only aged 3 years in a decade. Son William, however, is actually listed as 19 years old on the 1861 census but, at a glance, the 19 could look like a 10.

HTH,
Trish

[Mutley]

Sharon,
I agree with Trish, this family is transcribed by Ancestry as Gale and although they are not always very good with their transcriptions, in this case, I have to go along with it. It is definately GALE.

Have you seen this entry, if not I can email it to you.

If you accept Gale then Trish has found them in 1851. If you would like looks ups for Gates then tell us all you know about Frederick and we will look.

Regards Mutley

[Sharon Medley]

Thank you everybody. I got my transcription from findmypast.com so did not see the actual image. I will take all your word for it being GALE.
Frederick has been my "brickwall". I thought that I had found him a couple of years ago on the LDS site. I knew that he was born July of 1846. I found a birth registration in 1859, parents John and Elizabeth showing born in Stepney.
According to the Canadian 1901 census it shows his birth date the same. It also stated that he arrived in Canada in 1865. I found his marriage registration in Canada but he states that his parents were James and Elizabeth, which put me back at square one. I have not been able to find any document stating where in England he was born, not even his death registration. And coming from England to Canada he did not need any naturalization papers.
Again, thank you everybody.
Sharon

[Trish]

Well, Sharon, based on the information you just gave us, how about the following from the 1851 census?

Census: 1851: HO107/1490 Folio 392 Page 20
Address: 77 Lisson Grove Nth, St. Marylebone, Middlesex, England
-- James Gates Head Mar 45 Grocer &c. [born:] Norfolk Yarmouth
-- Betsy Gates Wife Mar 39 [born:] Marylebone Middx
-- Maria do. daur. 9 Scholar [born:] do. do.
-- Frederick do. Son 6 ditto [born:] do. do.
-- James do do 4 Scholar [born:] do. do.
-- Honor do. daur. 3 @ Home [born:] do. do.
-- Samuel do. Son 1 ditto [born:] do. do.
-- Honr Visitor 23 [born:] do. do.
-- Caroline Ingram Servant U 20 House Servant [born:] do. do.

What do you think? A possible match for your Frederick?

Regards,
Trish

[Trish]

Sharon,

Here's the same Gates family in 1861 -- no Frederick:

Census: 1861: RG9/90 Folio 45 Page 6
Address: 39 Abbey Gardens, St. Marylebone, Middlesex, England
-- James Gates Head Mar 55 Grocer. [born:] Norfolk Gorleston
-- Elizabeth Do. Wife Mar 46 [born:] Middx. London
-- Jane* Do Daur. 15 Scholar [born:] Do. Do.
-- Honor Do. Daur.13 Do. [born:] Do. Do.
-- Samuel Do. Son 11 Do. [born:] Do. Do.
-- Elizabeth Do. Daur. 9 Do. [born:] Do. Do.

* On the 1851 census, the child's name looks like Jams [as a short form for James] and is marked as a male and a son, aged 3.

HTH,
Trish

[Trish]

The Gates family in 1871:

Census: 1871: RG10/188 Folio 8 Page 10
Address: 39 Abbey Gardens, St. Marylebone, London, England
-- James Gales* Head Mar. 65 Grocer + Cheesemonger [born:] Norfolk [looks like] Haddiscoe
-- Betsy Gales Wife Mar. 61 Housekeeper [born:] St. Marylebone
-- Jane Gales Daughter Unm 24 Employed in M.O. Office [born] Lisbon Grove Marylebone
-- Honor Gales Daughter Unm 23 Employed in Household [born:] Do
-- Elizabeth Gales Daughter Unm 19 Employed in Shop [born:] Do
-- Elizabeth Tull Lodger Widow 72 No Occupation [born:] Middlesex [looks like] Mile Enoke
-- Louisa E. Tull Daur of Do Unm 29 Dressmaker [born:] Middlesex Piccadilly

* Gales/Gates: the 3rd letter looks like a "t" without the cross line. The enumerator's "l" written elsewhere on the page is always looped.

The same Gates family can be found in the 1881 census at RG11/165 Folio 25 Page 12: 50 Abbey Gdns, James Gates, 75, Master Grocer, with children Honor, Elizabeth and Jane and a grandaughter and a lodger.

Regards,
Trish