bagley/bagnal

[ann johnston]

hi
i wonder if anyone can help me i am really stuck

my relation some GGGG grandfather
EDWARD BAGLEY but in the early years shows as BAGNAL/L
was born on 1st October 1820 in Broseley and christined at Birch Meadow Chapel NC Broseley

his parents where a EDWARD BAGLEY BAGNAL/L AND ANN BAGLEY/BAGNAL/L
he maiden name was SIDOWAY

i can find my EDWARD AND ANN on the 1841 census but then i loose them

also i am trying to find the marriage of EDWARD AND ANN
and also this EDWARDS family ie his brothers and sisters
and hopefuly his mother and father

i estimate he wound have been born around 1798 - 1802

i would be very grateful for any help as i really have hit a brick wall

many thanks

[jeeb]

Hi Ann,
I have found Edward Bagnall/ Bagley on 1851/1861 censuses and I agree he does seem to change his name. I have not found the Edward & Ann you say you found in 1841, where are they? May I also ask you how you know Ann's maiden name was Sidoway? What I have found is a marriage between Edward Bagnall & Ann Siddoway 14th May 1801 Ryton Durham but if your assumed date of birth for Edwatrd Snr. is correct this cannot be the correct marriage. It is of course quite possible for a couple to marry in 1801 and have a child in 1820. If you could give a few more definite facts I will endeavour to help you further.

Cheers Jeremy

[ann johnston]

hi jeremy

thanks for that this is the information i have from the early censuses
i think i may be clutching a bit a straws so to speak with limited resourses
but i will outline the info i have

mostly of ancestry

1841

ann bagnall aged 55
george bagnall aged20
selina bagnall aged 15
martha bagnal aged 11

the address is broseley it looks like a street called fiery field ???


1841

edward bagnall aged 20
elizabeth baganll aged 20
edwin bagnall aged 10 months

address king st broseley

now the edward mentioned above i found his birth on familysearch.org
birth 1st oct 1820 broseley shropshire
underneath it shows parents they are listed as edward and ann

i presume the ann mentioned above is my edwards mother but i have lost the father
i am trying to find edward born 1st october 1820 mother father brothers and sisters but now i am really struggling

many thanks


ann

[jeeb]

Hi Ann,
Thank you for the information, you still haven't said how you 'know' Ann's maiden name was 'Sidoway' though. I suspect you are taking information from the 'Familysearch' site, please be warned that though this is a useful aid it can often be misleading. A lot of the information you are using has been added by a member of the LDS so will need checking. I have found the children mentioned on 1841 census baptised as children of Edward & Ann, so assuming the IGI information to be correct it is fairly safe to think Ann is the mother of your Edward (1820). I have found a Selina Bagnall registered dead in 1841 at Madeley, this could possibly be the daughter on 1841 census and there is a 20 year old Martha Bagnall, a servant in Broseley in 1851, likely to be the other daughter. Ann's age in 1841 is 55 (rounded down) ie born 1781-1786, older than you estimated. There is a marriage at Madeley which is possible:-
Edward Bagnall & Ann Peet 13 August 1807.
What I do if I am uncertain of which is the correct family line, is to look what the children are named, there was a great tendancy to use family names.
Edward (1820) & Elizabeth name their second son Jonas. There is also a Jonas Bagnall baptised to Isaac Bagnall in Broseley St Leonard 1812. There is a strong possibility this will be a relationship, Isaac probably being a brother or father of your original Edward? This I hope will give you another angle to approach the problem from.
Cheers Jeremy

[ann johnston]

hi jeremy

thank you very much for that information
i found the name sidoway on the family search for some silly reason i thought ryton was shropshire ha ha but i will certainly look at the ann peet
i did spot the isacc but i never connected it to jonas but again i will certainly look at that
the early census was quite easy for me seeing my family never seemed to move from "Broseley" till the 1901 census
but now i am going back beyond the 1841 census it is proving very difficult
as i really need to spend a lot of time at shropshire archives , but living in manchester trips are very limited and there does not appear to me much resourses on the internet ( well from the sites i tend to use)

your help was very much appreciated
thank you so much

ann

[bristolloggerheads]

12th May 1894

SUICIDE AT BROSELEY.
On Monday morning, Dr. Tailer, borough coroner, held an inquest on the body of Edwin Bagley (treasurer to the Broseley Oddfellows’ Society), who was found drowned on Saturday in the Severn at Ironbridge, deceased having been missing from his home nearly a fortnight. The inquiry was held at the Summerhouse Inn, Broseley, Mr. W. H. Smith being appointed foreman.—Eliza Bagley said: I am the widow of the deceased, and the last time I saw him alive was on the night of the 25th ult., when he went to bed about 9-30. I remained up with my daughter. It was 11 o’clock when I went to bed, and he appeared to be asleep then. We did not speak. On the following morning, when it was just breaking daylight, I heard deceased get up and go out at the back door. I did not speak to him, for I thought he would come back again to bed, and that was the last time I saw him. He did not strike a light. On the previous evening we both went down to the cemetery to see our son’s grave. No words passed in any way that evening. My son and husband never disagreed. Deceased has lately complained of his head, and seemed very quiet; this has been since he had the influenza. He worked for Richard Jones, and he was 53 years of age.—Henry Bagley, son, said: When my father went to bed on the 25th ult. he did not say “Good night” to anyone. I have never heard him threaten to commit suicide. I was on good terms with him, and we had no quarrel on the previous night.—Cross-examined: I have not had much employment, but there had been no unpleasantness on that account. Deceased used to tell me where to go and ask for a job. I am certain we had no quarrel about it.—The Coroner: Remember you are on your oath.—Witness: We never had a quarrel.—Martha Bowen said: I live at Roper’s Hill, Ironbridge. When I was going from my house towards the ferry on the 26th ult., about a quarter to five in the morning, I saw the deceased coming away from the river. He looked strange and wild in his manner, and he was without a hat. I said “Good morning” to him, and he replied, and when I got out of his sight I ran away, for I was afraid of him.—Jane Morgan, Jackfield, stated: When I was going to the river for two buckets of water on Saturday, about 10 o’clock in the morning, I saw something in the water near the Madeley side. I told a neighbour that I thought it was a man’s head. I then sent for Police-constable Bowen, who came and got the deceased out of the river with the assistance of Thomas Hill, at the boat. The body was conveyed to the club-room of this inn. I helped to lay out the body, which I knew perfectly well to be that of Edwin Bagley. He was bruised very badly about the chest and shoulders—the skin was not broken, but discoloured. There were no broken limbs, nor marks on his head, but there was a slight bruise on the top lip.—The Coroner: You see, gentlemen, this is different from what people are talking about.—The Foreman: I heard there had been unpleasantness about the son not having any employment.—Other jurymen made a similar remark, and thought there must have been something to upset the man, who was always a very quiet person.—Sergeant Darbyshire said no information was given to the police till three days after deceased was missing. Something was said about a candle.—A Juryman: We all know the son’s character.—Eliza Bagley was recalled, when the Coroner asked why she did not give the police information before?— Witness: Because I was expecting him to return every moment. —The Coroner: But did you make any inquiries about him?—Witness: Oh yes, the neighbours and I wrote to my friends.— Sergeant Darbyshire: But not before we told you to do so on Saturday.—The Coroner: How is that?—Witness: I did not think he would do such a thing.—The Coroner: What made you think he had gone away at all ?—Witness: I did not know what to think. —The Foreman: What was your answer to Mr. Jones when he came and inquired for your husband?—Witness: I cannot say now.—The Foreman: Did not you tell him he had gone away from home?— Witness: I did. I found his purse in the box with a penny in it.—The Coroner: Your son has been out of work a great deal?— Witness: On and off.—The Coroner: Has there been any unpleasantness about him?—Witness: No, there has not. The boy has been unfortunate.—The Coroner: I hope, for your sake, he will be more fortunate.—Witness: I hope so, sir.—She then left the room.—The Coroner: That is all the evidence we have. We know how he came by his death, but we don’t know the motive, and I believe there must have been some. I don’t think influenza was a sufficient reason for it.—The Foreman: I believe there were family quarrels.—The verdict returned was, “Deceased committed suicide by drowning himself when in a state of temporary insanity.”

On Monday, the remains of the deceased were interred at the Broseley Cemetery. The Rev. G. F. Lamb, M.A. (rector) was the officiating clergyman. The deceased, who was in his 53rd year, had been a member of the “Rose of Sharon” Lodge (I.O.O.F.) for a number of years, and held the position of P.P.G.M. and treasurer, having occupied the last-named office upwards of 15 years. He was of a very quiet and inoffensive disposition, and was highly respected by not only members of his own lodge, but by members of every lodge throughout the district, and by every one who knew him, as a proof of which a large number of persons were present at the cemetery, whose demeanour testified to the fact. He leaves a widow and six children. The funeral cortege left the Summer House (where the body had lain since its recovery), proceeding, via the late residence of the deceased, in the following order:—Messrs. John Jones (P.P.G.M. ), John Brown (P.P.G.M.), John Wilde (P.P.G.M.), Samuel Davis (P.S.), Homer Wase (G.M.), William Barnet (D.G.M.), George Bradeley (N.G.), Alfred J. Pountney (regalia officer), T. E. Garbett (P.G.), Richard Aston, George Wilde, Edwin Langford, John McCoy, W. H. Gittings, Thomas Jones, T. E. Meredith, Thomas Meredith, Thomas Salmonds, B. Cox, S. Lloyd, J. Smith, George Howells, James Clarke, jun., W. Overhand, W. Yates, W. Oakley, George Meredith, J. Colley, George Bowen, William Hall, William Gough, Robert Gough, Thomas Bradley, T. Denstone, T. Burton, R. Taylor, Ernest J. Wase, S. Garbett, T. Bradeley, and Samuel Lloyd, representing “Rose of Sharon” Lodge, all attired in the usual regalia of the order; Mr. Wm. Price (C.S.) represented the “ Royal Oak” Lodge, Madeley, and Messrs. T. E. Patten (P.P.G.M.), Henry Foster (P.P.G,M.), and Isaiah Boden represented “Rose of the Vale” Lodge, Ironbridge. The bearers were Samuel Danks, Jolla Morgan, jun., Wm. Smith, Richard Jones, George Bradeley, Frank Price, T. Denstone, John Dodd, Richard Harrison, John Harrison, Moses Jones, and Wm. Parker. The mourners following the hearse were Messrs. Henry, Arthur, and Edwin Bagley (sons of deceased), the Misses Eliza and Annie Bagley (daughters of deceased), Messrs. George Bagley, Jonas Bagley, Alfred Bagley, James Bagley and wife, Richard Bagley (brothers and sister-in-law), Messrs. Wm. and Alfred Bagley (nephews), Mr. John Gething and wife, and Mr. Holland Ball (brothers-in-law and sister-in-law). The address prescribed by the Independent Order of Oddfellows was read in a very feeling manner at the grave by Mr. Homer Wase, after which the members representing the various lodges proceeded to the “Rose of Sharon” Lodge room, Lion Hotel, where, upon the proposition of Mr. George Wilde, a hearty vote of thanks was accorded to the visiting brothers for their sympathy in attending the funeral. Mr. T. E. Patten (P.P.G.M., “Rose of the Vale” Lodge) responded in a neat and sympathetic speech. Several beautiful wreaths were sent by sorrowing relatives and sympathising friends.