more on travelling families

[JoanneM]

Tennant Smith, son of Dennis Smith married a Caroline Lucy, so the Caroline and Tennant Smith could be his wife and son, although I don't have him recorded with a son named Tennant.

I hadn't seen the IGI reference to Israel, and you'd have thought I'd have picked up on Elderi Gray on the census - tried every way to read it.

The suggestion that Sistance Charlot may be a son of John Charlotte and Sophia Smith makes sense. There was quite a big gap between Eleanor born 1817 and Sylvester born 1827, now you have found Edmund born 1822, and quite possibly now Sistance in 1820.

I've managed to find Sistance on the 1891 census:
1891 Church Fenton, Yorkshire (gipsies in camp)
Cistance Sharlott marr 66 besom maker and tinware dealer, Burford, Oxfordshire
Lementina Sharlott wife 65, Leics Leek
William Sharlott son marr 29 Lincoln Kirton in Lindsey
Annie Sharlott daughter in law 24 Glamorgan Swansea
Matilda Sharlott daughter unm 19 Yorks Barwick in Elmet

If William was born in Kirton in Lindsey in about 1862 this is when Sylvestia Smith was living there. It would also make Sistance born around 1825, but still within the gap I had between baptisms.

[Ann65]

There are certainly not that many Charlottes in "our" part of the country, and on that understanding, I should proceed as if Sistance were part of your group unless or until you find proof otherwise. In such cases I put a questionmark by the name until I can verify something, but it does make sense to place him on the Charlotte tree with the repetition of known romany stopping places and names.

[Ann65]

Mother of Elizabeth Charlotte found on 1861 Census, I assume you are already aware of this one....

Class: RG9; Piece: 2397; Folio: 30; Page: 33
House and Shop, Kirton In Lindsey 1861

John Major 35 Radford Notts Glass & China Dealer
Elizabeth Major 32 Billington Lin (Billingborough or Billinghay, both of which were Rom stopping places)
Joseph Major 8 Kirton
John Major 4 Kirton
Alfred Major 1 Kirton
Lafiah Charlotte 68 Mother/wid b.Kirton In Lindsey

[Ann65]

The suggestion that Sistance Charlot may be a son of John Charlotte and Sophia Smith makes sense. There was quite a big gap between Eleanor born 1817 and Sylvester born 1827, now you have found Edmund born 1822, and quite possibly now Sistance in 1820.

I've managed to find Sistance on the 1891 census:
1891 Church Fenton, Yorkshire (gipsies in camp)
Cistance Sharlott marr 66 besom maker and tinware dealer, Burford, Oxfordshire
Lementina Sharlott wife 65, Leics Leek
William Sharlott son marr 29 Lincoln Kirton in Lindsey
Annie Sharlott daughter in law 24 Glamorgan Swansea
Matilda Sharlott daughter unm 19 Yorks Barwick in Elmet

I found Matilda Sharlott married a Boswell........ take a look

Biggin Yks 1901 - Class: RG13; Piece: 4427; Folio: 104; Page: 4.
Thomas Boswell 35 Newark Notts Chimney Sweep
Matilda Boswell 30 Barwick In Elmet Yks
Martha Cunningham 7 Hull Yorks daughter (doesnt specify exactly whos daughter!)
Adelaide Boswell 3 Biggin Yks
Sistance Boswell 1 Biggin Yks
Reame Charlotte 82 Louth Lincs Mother In Law/wid

[Mutley]

I realise that yours are not in my area but if you ever had any Smiths that visited mine in Mitcham, Surrey then I would be pleased to make their acquaintance
Black Hannah, Flower Seller, Fortune Teller and Peg Maker married to John.

[Ann65]

Found them in 1881 at Humber St, Cleethorpes travelling with some of the Browns.

Lister Sharlott 59 (Sistance) Traveller hawker b.Louth
Matilda Sharlott 50 (Lemontina) b.Louth
Mary A Sharlott 18 b.Louth
Lillie Sharlott 15 b.Louth
Matilda Sharlott 10 b.Louth

William Brown 35 Grasby Lin
Sophia (Sinfai) Brown 29 Maxey Nthants (daughter of Eldred Pierce aka Winter aka Smith and Miseretta Heron)
John A (Arthur) Brown 7 b.Caistor
Agnes Brown 5 b.Torton Lin
Clare (Clara) Brown 3 b.Horncastle
Julia Brown 21 Boarder b.Alford

[Ann65]

Hiya Mutley. Im not too well up on the southerly Romanies but I know some folki who are

passingthrough
romanygenes.

Have a look around (it might take a while!)

[Mutley]

Thanks Ann,
Romany genes, I follow avidly.

Passingthrough was new and I think I have added another indirect family member, so thanks again.

PS Saw your piccie, looks good

[JoanneM]

Can't thank you enough for all this information. I'm going to have to sit down and digest it all. I did have the 1861 for Sophia Charlotte which is how I found out about her daughter marrying John Major.

Couple of things I've found - a death on freebmd for 'Cystance' Charlotte, Selby, 1900 Dec qtr.

Also Cornelius Gray/Mobbs/Smith born c.1860 Belton seems to have got himself enumerated twice on the 1891 census.

There's the entry I'd already mentioned (missed Joshua off last time - sorry):
1891 - Goole - gypsy tent
Cornelius Smith marr 33 basket maker, Belton Lincs
Sevesta Smith, wife, marr 23 born Dewsbury, Yorkshire
Joshua Smith, son, 1, born Cave, Yorkshire
John Smith brother unm 27, born Scarboro
Evelea smith sister unm 27, born Castoft(?) lincs
Laura Smith dau 1 born ? Bridge yorks

And also:
1891 - Hook, Goole, Swinefleet Road, (tents & gipsies)
John Smith, head, marr, 29, peg maker, born Scarboro'
Avelina, wife, marr, 26, born Eastoft
Laura, daughter, 1, born Yorkshire River Bridge

Cornelius Smith, head, single, 33, basket maker, born Lincolnshire Belton
Silvester, concubine, single, born Yorkshire Dewsbury
Joshua, son, 1 born Yorkshire Cave

I knew I'd seen the entry before as I had the 1891 entry where Silvester (or Sylvesta) is a concubine. Sylvesta is the daughter of Sidney Smith and his wife Maria, Sidney being the son of Dennis Smith and Eleanor Charlotte. In 1901 Sylvesta is 'Vesta' Smith and is living alone with her children in Gainsborough.

[Ann65]

Thanks Ann,
Romany genes, I follow avidly.

Passingthrough was new and I think I have added another indirect family member, so thanks again.

PS Saw your piccie, looks good

Thanks

Passingthrough has been around before on another server, Jackie is one of the great researchers, like Sue, they both have masses of info.