G-G-Grandfather, William Scrivens

[Shawnell]

Good Morning Everyone,

I am searching for information on my Great-Great Grandfather,
William Scrivens. The family story told by my great grandmother was that he had been born on a ship in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean and that his family owned a shipping company. The more I searched the less I believed the story. However, recently I mannaged to find his death certificate. It states that he was born, 15-4-1849, on a Steamer on the Atlantic Ocean and had English parentage. Now I don't know what to believe.

I did find the record to show that he emigrated to the United States in the late summer of 1886 from Derbyshire with his son A. C. (Alfred Charles) Scrivens, age 16. They arrived on 20-9-1886 in New York. The wife/mother was not with them. (This was to be the first of many records on which he was not truthful about his age and marrital status).

From A.C.'s death certificate I learned that his mother's maiden name was Whitman, nothing more. Alfred Charles Scrivens was born 20 Sep 1870, in England, though I do not know where.

If any of this sounds familiar to anyone, or if anyone has access to documents relating to these Scrivens/Whitman, I would love to hear from you.

Thank you very much
Shawnell (in California, USA)

[Trish]

Shawnell,

Well, starting with Alfred and working backwards -- hopefully...

There are the following possibilities in the FreeBMD index for Alfred's birth record:

-- Alfred Charles SCRIVEN birth registration 3rd Quarter [Jul-Aug-Sep] 1870 Cirencester, Gloucestershire/Wiltshire [Reference: Volume 6a Page 360]

-- Alfred SCRIVENS birth registration 3rd Quarter 1870 Burton Upon Trent Derbyshire/Staffordshire [Reference: Volume 6b Page 319]

The only way to confirm which, if any of these, is the right one would be to order the certificate which should give you father's name.

I quickly scanned the census records for likely-looking matches for Alfred with a father William born about 1849 but didn't see anything.

Maybe someone else on the forum has better eyes than I. Anyone?

Trish

[Andrew Mead]

Alfred (Gloucestershire) appears to have father Job and Alfred (Burton) has John as father.
The above two are the only Alfreds, or any thing similar, in the index for quarters 3 and 4 of 1870 (Jul-Dec)

[Shawnell]

Trish, Andrew;

WOW, that was fast. Thank you both very much for the information.
Whenever I've tried to access the FreeBMD index it always seems to have too much traffic to get in.

It looks like I may need to expand my search area a bit to include several of the surrounding areas.

From where did the steam ships depart when heading for the USA? Is there even ship size access to a waterway from Derby?

Thank you both again

Shawnell

[Trish]

...From where did the steam ships depart when heading for the USA? Is there even ship size access to a waterway from Derby?...

Shawnell,

I am not very knowledgeable in this area, however, I would guess that there were probably more than a few options for someone travelling to the States around that time. You could try posting your specific query about the "Emigration from England" forum.

...They arrived on 20-9-1886 in New York. The wife/mother was not with them....

...Alfred Charles Scrivens was born 20 Sep 1870, in England, though I do not know where...

Did Alfred arrive in NYC on his 16th birthday?

It's a little odd that neither Andrew nor I can find any probable trace of them in the 1881 or previous censuses. It may be that William went by another first name and/or changed/forgot his birthyear. Another possibility is that the name SCRIVENS is recorded differently in the censuses although I looked for variations such as SCRIVEN and SCRIVENER, etc.

Do you know what happened to Alfred's mother? Could she have followed them to the States at a later date? Was there ever any mention of other children?

Fishing for clues...
Trish

[Andrew Mead]

Derby is about as far inland as you can get, however train travel was easy by then and it is not far to Liverpool, one of the biggest ports for North America.
At the end of the 1800s my gg grandfather ( Rev Thomas Bradbury) travelled regularly (every year for about 13 years) from Camberwell, Surrey, (now South London) to New York State, through Liverpool. He appears on many of the Ellis Island records. He went there to preach, but I'd hate to have been one of his congregation! One day I'll get round to asking more about his ancestors on the Derby list - his father (John Bradbury) was born in Ashford

[Shawnell]

Let me try to answer/comment to all of the new replies.

TRISH:
I'll look for the "Emigration from England" forum. Maybe I'll get lucky and there are connected records I haven't found yet (e.g. Sheriff's records?). I found the scanned ship manifest on the internet about a year and a half ago. That's when we learned about Alfred Charles Scrivens (A.C.). By checking his paper trail I was able to make a deffinate connection to William.

The thought that William changed his name has occured to me. What he would have changed it from I would have no clue. I desided that since he did bring his son with him to the US, and both used the name 'Scrivens' for the rest of their lives, as did their descendants, (except one) the chances of him changing his name was not as great as if he had immigrated alone. So far I have no information suggesting any other children as siblings to Alfred, before they left England.

Within two years of arriving on this shore William married a young widow in Missouri, my GG-Grandmother. They had three children of their own which included my G-Grandmother, Sarah. The other two children: William Milton, and Elizabeth Ethel aka "Bessie." Interestingly, whether it is due to regional speech patterns or some hidden information, Bessie's descendants insist her last name was SCRIBENS, and not SCRIVENS. However, from the immigration date forward the only records I have found say SCRIVENS.

There is at least one page that claims William was born 15 APR 1849 in Westminster, England, and list the Information provided by Michael G. Scrivens in "Our Family Story," circa 1985. Though I have never seen this book I am in contact with the person who sites it hoping to get verification or documantation to support it.

CORRECTION on Alfred's birthday (They may have arrived on the 27th aanged his name has occured to me. What he would have changed it from I would have no clue. I desided that since he did bring his son with him to the US, and both used the name 'Scrivens' for the rest of their lives, as did their descendants, (except one) the chances of him changing his name was not as great as if he had immigrated alone.

I don't know what happened to AC's mother. According to the California Death Index her maiden name was Whitman.
Last Name SCRIVENS
First Name ALFRED
Middle C
Birth Date 09/27/1870
Mother Maiden WHITMAN
Father Last SCRIVENS
Sex M
Birth Place REST (OTHER)
Death Place Residence NAPA, California
Death Date 01/19/1942
Age 71 yrs

Name: Alfred Charles SCRIVENS
Sex: M
Birth: 27 SEP 1870
Death: 19 JAN 1942 in Napa, Napa Co., California
Buried: Grass Valley, Nevada Co., California (wife and son also buried there)

Marriage 1 Maud STEVENS b: 6 JUN ssie's descendants insist her last name was SCRIBENS, and not SCRIVENS. However, from the immigration date forward the only records I have found say SCRIVENS.

ANDREW: I looked at the satalite images of England. That's why I asked about places of departure. I totally forgot about trains. It always amazes me how much and how far people actually traveled in the 1800's. I have another GGG-grandfather who traveled from New Ys well. I'm running on memory).

Thank you both
Shawnell

[Shawnell]

I don't know why half of the message is doubled. My apologies.

Shawnell

[Andrew Mead]

I don't know why half of the message is doubled. My apologies.

Shawnell

This board does that frequently - it's best to keep postings short and do several sections!

[Shawnell]

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.