1851 Census Francis from Mold

[Peter Burnham]

Hello

Any information please on the FRANCIS family of Griffiths Sq Mold

Thomas age aprox. 37 Occupation Currier
Wife Elizabeth
At least one child James who was born in 1848

Understand Thomas may have been born in Cornwall

If anyone has access to the 1851 census any info would be appreciated

Many thanks

Peter

[Trish]

Hello

Any information please on the FRANCIS family of Griffiths Sq Mold

Thomas age aprox. 37 Occupation Currier
Wife Elizabeth
At least one child James who was born in 1848

Understand Thomas may have been born in Cornwall

If anyone has access to the 1851 census any info would be appreciated

Many thanks

Peter

Peter,

This looks like your FRANCIS family -- you're right about the birthplace for Thomas:

1851 Census: HO107/2501 Folio 629 Page 46
Address: Curriers Squares, Mold, Flintshire

Thomas FRANCIS Head Mar 35 Master Currier [born] Cornwall Key
Elizabeth do Wife Mar 33 Wife of do Flintsh Mold
Samuel do Son 10 Scholar " do
John do Son 8 Scholar " do
Elizabeth do daugh 6 Scholar " do
James do Son 2 At home " do
Mary HUGHES Servant U 19 House servant " ?Ysceiviog?

HTH,
Trish

[Peter Burnham]

Many thanks for your help Trish

This has been a big help

My grandfather was called Samuel and it would appear that he is named after an uncle ( always wondered why he was called Samuel - now I know )

Regards Peter

[Trish]

Many thanks for your help Trish

This has been a big help

My grandfather was called Samuel and it would appear that he is named after an uncle ( always wondered why he was called Samuel - now I know )

Regards Peter

Peter,

Do you know what happened to your family after 1851? At a glance, I don't see them in 1861. But I found a family who must be related:

1861 Census: RG9/4276 Folio 56 Page 2
Address: Cae Newydd, Nerquis, Flintshire, Wales

James FRANCIS Head Mar 51 Lead Miner [born] Cornwall Key
Susannah Do Wife Mar 47 Cornwall ?Gurinup?
Mary F Do Daur Un 23 Carnarvonshire
James T Do Son Un 21 Lead Miner Mold Flintshire
Elizabeth Do Daur Un 13 Llanarmon Denbighshire
Susannah Do Daur 11 Scholar Nerquis Flintshire

Is there a possibility that your Thomas FRANCIS died between the 1851 and 1861 censuses and that his wife, Elizabeth, remarried?

Trish

[Trish]

Perhaps this is daughter Elizabeth in 1871?

1871 Census: RG10/5647 Folio 15 Page 21
Address: 2 King Street, Mold, Flintshire, Wales

William WHELDON Head Unm 40 Hairdresser & Publican [born] Flintshire Mold
Ann WHELDON Sister Unm 44 Housekeeper do do
Elizabeth FRANCIS Neice [sic] Unmd 26 Dressmaker do do
Margaret FRANCIS Neice Unmd 16 Scholar do do

To put this in perspective: there are 27 people with the surname FRANCIS listed as living and/or born in Mold in the 1871 census. Of those, 4 are named Elizabeth and only 1 was born in the 1840s.

So, if father Thomas has passed away and mother Elizabeth has remarried, it is reasonable to think that daughter Elizabeth could be living with other family. In which case, perhaps, William and Ann WHELDON are mother Elizabeth's brother and sister. Just a possibility for you...

Trish

[Trish]

Here's another very interesting entry from the 1861 census:

1861 Census: RG9/4273 Folio 63 Page 5
Address: Old Hale, Halking, Fintshire, Wales

Eliza FRANCIS Head W 56 Proprietor of Lead Mines [born] Cornwall Guinear
George Do Son Un 21 Lead Miner Flintshire Halkin
Mathew [sic] Do Son Un 20 Lead Miner Do Do
Martha Do Daur Un 18 [born] Do Do
Frank Do Son Un 17 Scholar Do Do
Alice FRANCIS Daur Un 15 [born] Flintshire Halkin
James Do Son 14 Scholar Do Do
Mathew Do Grandson 4 Scholar Do Holywell

Is Guinear close to Key in Cornwall? Note that the grandson Mathew was born in Holywell. Mold is in the same district.

Trish

[Trish]

If we follow the theory that Thomas died in the '50s or '60s, here's a possibility for a remarried Elizabeth in 1871... note the WHELDON in the household:

1871 Census: RG10/5650 Folio 3 Page 22
Address:Alun Ter., Hendrebiffa, Flintshire, Wales

John WILLIAMS Head Mar 48 Mining Agent [born] Denbighsh. Llanarmon
Elizabeth Do Wife Mar 53 Flintshire, Mold
Isabella J. Do Daur 14 Lancashire, Corniston
Robert E. Do Son 8 Scholar Flintshire, Mold
Elizabeth WHELDON Aunt Unmar. 75 Do Do
Thomas FRANCIS Son Unmar 19 Lead Ore Miner Do Do

Please jump in at any time if I'm on the wrong track and this all has absolutely nothing to do with your family!

Trish

[Peter Burnham]

Hello Trish and thanks for info.

James Francis moved to Manchester. He was a journeyman bootmaker . Date of move not known but he married Elizabeth Jones of Llandyrnog in Manchester in 1871. Her father Edward was a Butcher - I assume from Llandyrnog

Thomas his father was also a currier ( a maker of leather goods ) / not sure what happened to him or his wife Elizabeth nee Wheldon ( you are correct Wheldons are connected - they were married in Liverpool 1839 )

Their daughter Elizabeth was living with William Wheldon in 1871 as per the 1871 Census ( 2 King St. Mold was the "Globe" ). Margaret may have been a daughter or a perhaps a cousin - I have no proof.

The 1881 Census shows Margaret still at the Globe working as a barmaid

I did wonder that if both girls were with their uncle ,then Thomas and Elizabeth may have died

What interests me most was that the father of Thomas was also called Thomas - a mine agent - he married Mary Whitford in 1802 at Kea Cornwall.
Did he move to Mold or stay in Cornwall ? Was there a mass movement of miners from Cornwall to N Wales during that period ? Why did Thomas jnr not take up mining ?

I would imagine that a mine agent was quite an important job. Would there be a list of mines their agents or owners somewhere ?

Your comments re John Williams seem reasonable
Elizabeth was born 1818 Mold
Father -in-law was also a mine agent
Elizabeth Wheldon born 1797 to John and Anne ( Jones ) Wheldon ( Elizabeth Francis's grandparents ) could be her aunt
Not heard of Thomas Francis age 19 b.1852 - he just missed the 1851 Census

When you look through the census records for N Wales it is surprising to see how many miners actually came from Cornwall

When researching our history it is surprising to discover what really happened in the past. I thought my mother's family was 100. John Williams seem reasonable
Elizabeth was born 1818 Mold
Father -in-law was also a mine agent
Elizabeth Wheldon born 1797 to John and Anne ( Jones ) Wheldon ( Elizabeth Francis's grandparents ) could be her aunt
Not heard of Thomas Francis age 19 b.1852 - he just missed the 1851 Census

When you look through the census records for N Wales it is surprising to see how many miners actually came from Cornwall

When researching our history it is surprising to discover what really happened in the past. I thought my mother's family was 100% Welsh but it seems that some of them were only passing through from Cornwall

regards Peter

[kazrbutler]

My understanding is that there were fluctuations in the copper and tin mining industry in Cornwall during the nineteenth century. Some of it was related to changes in mining techniques and engineering. Of course, when mines were worked out, the miners had no option but to move on. During slumps, miners left Cornwall. Some emigrated to the US, and settled, becoming Hillybillys, according to displays at the Poldark mine. Others may have gone elsewhere overseas, where mining was developing. I know that some certainly moved to coal fields elsewhere in the UK. My uncle had family who moved from Cornwall up to the Derbyshire coal fields.

The following site has some information which you may find relevant.
https://www.cornish-mining.org.uk/mintech.htm

Karen

[Peter Burnham]

Hello Trish

Have replied to you but this thread has become corrupted

If you check "printable version " you will see my reply

Peter