Naval Occupation

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

I viewed an image on the 1871 Census and below is the transcription for it. Could someone please tell what the *abbreviations* stand for in the occupation part please? :confused:

CENSUS 1871 Ref: RG10/1137/8/13
Registration district: Portsea Island
Sub-registration district: Portsmouth Town
Vessel: Inconstant

John ORFORD (37) Or.Mr. Marr b. Hollingbourne, Kent

[johnpritt]

Ordinary mariner perhaps, though I'm not sure if that would be a Royal Navy rating.

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi John,

Sounds OK to me ..... there again, I don't know if he was in the Royal Navy, the Merchant Navy, or whether he was just fishing over the side! :cool:
I don't know anything about ships or boats (don't really want to, as I was terribly seasick on the only one I've ever been on).
Ten years after this, he was a Lodging House Keeper ...... so perhaps he got seasick too?

Thank you for replying.

[Geoffers]

I don't know if he was in the Royal Navy, the Merchant Navy, or whether he was just fishing over the side!
Don't forget that the Registers of Seamen's Services are online and you can search the index free:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/
this should tell you if the chap was in the RN.

There's also Paul benyon's site http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html which lists over 5,000 19/20th century Naval vessels.

Merchant Ships and Boats had their own schedules which not only listed the crew, but described the type of vessel and its size. These descriptions are usually appear as the page prior to the crew list.

Geoffers

[busyglen]

Thanks for the Paul Benyon site Geoffers, that is really interesting.

Glenys

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Many thanks again Geoffers :) for those links ...... I'll have a look and see what I can find.

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

|help| Oh dear! Well, on Geoffers first link, I got totally lost! I filled in the Search box, the Advanced Search box and the Quick Search box and I kept going round in circles. I typed John ORFORD 1860-1881 somewhere along the line and got 60,000 odd results. I looked at the first list and further down it said Place of Orford. Then I typed Orford, John and still ended up at the same place. |banghead|

Then I tried the second link and clicked on all possibles there. All I could find was:
Inconstant, † 1868
Type: Cruiser, 2nd Class ; late unarmoured frigate. Iron cased with wood. ; Armament 16
Completed ‡ : 12 Nov 1868 ; Disposal date or year § : 1956
BM: 4066 tons ; Displacement: 5780 tons
Propulsion: Screw Complement: 600
Machinery notes: 7361 hpi 1000 hp ; Speed ; 15.0 knots ;
Notes:
Ships book ADM 136/49.
1870 Channel Squadron
1879 Portsmouth
I give up ....... I need a |hug|

[Geoffers]

I filled in the Search box, the Advanced Search box and the Quick Search box and I kept going round in circles.Less is more when searching web-sites. Try just entering ORFORD, or if you get too many hits that way, search under John ORFORD.

Hang on a sec and I'll have a browse for you.....

Geoffers

[Geoffers]

Search on TNA's web-site http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/
for surname ORFORD:

Forename Surname, born, Place, Service No. ADM ref.
Arthur Edward ORFORD, 14 Apr 1887, Soho London, 34772, ADM188/528
Bertram Augustus ORFORD, 7 Dec 1891, Plumstead Kent, L27, ADM188/988
Charles Ernest ORFORD, 1892-1907, Farnham Surrey, 300995, ADM188/488
Ernest ORFORD, 7 Jan 1900, Farnham Surry, K4891, ADM188/963
George ORFORD, 29 Apr 1866, Peckham Surrey, 117433, ADM188/149
Harry ORFORD, 27 Aug 1890, Hyde Cheshire, SS2747, ADM 188/1096
Harry ORFORD, 18 Jul 1875, Manchester, 279751, ADM188/446
Henry Thomas ORFORD, 20 Apr 1897, Peckham London, J24860, ADM188/696

continued....

[Geoffers]

James ORFORD, 11 Nov 1894, St.Helens Lancs, SS114042, ADM188/1120
Thomas William ORFORD, 18 Feb 1852, Yarmouth. 81499, ADM188/74
Walter ORFORD, 5 Nov 1896, Norwich, SS5661, ADM188/1099
William Edward ORFORD, 27 Jun 1903, Stratford Ess, SS10767, ADM188/1104


So it looks like he was in the Merchant Navy - as mentioned, look at the first page of the schedule and see if that describes the vessel.

Try the National Maritime Museum to see if they have anything on the vessel, they may have a photo http://www.nmm.org.uk/

Geoffers

[Geoffers]

I also searched for anyone born in Hollingbourne (that's the place mentioned in the search engine), no names similar to ORFORD recorded.

I'be tried a couple of variant surnames, AWFORD OFFORD, OFORD.but no one that looks like your John.

Geoffers

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi Geoffers,

Many thanks again for your help |bowdown| and advice. Trying to learn how to do things, I went to the link just now and typed Orford as you said (to follow in your footsteps).

I got a result of 61 documents this time instead of my previous 60, 000 so a great improvement! After clicking the relevant link from there, I got 16 results for surname Orford, so I'm learning how to do things ..... must remember that less is more! :D

Pity John's not there though ......perhaps he threw himself into the sea 'cos he was missing his new wife?

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Oh heck ...... I shall have to move my location from the Azores now! I've just noticed that my message says 5.30p.m. and it's 6.30p.m. ;)

[Clive Orford]

Hello,
Having just come upon the Census Record cited below, and now these threads of discussion, I am quite interested learning a little more, if possible regarding this John Orford. He is a member of my Family Tree. Don't know a great deal about him for he isn't a direct ancestor ... and unfortunately I can't help at the moment on the naval titles. In particular, was wondering if he had children with Caroline?

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi Clive,

I'm afraid I don't know much about John ORFORD (no Parents listed in my file) except the approximate year of his birth, from the 1871 Census Return and his death Jun Qtr. 1883.

He married Caroline Ellinor WOOLHOUSE Jun Qtr. 1869 Dover Reg. District and she was here in 1871:

CENSUS APRIL 1871 Ref: RG10/1016/45/57
Dwelling: Nelson Villa, Cheriton, Kent

Mary A. COWIN (42) Head Widow Lodging House Keeper b. Romney, Kent
Frederick (5) Son Scholar b. Dover, Kent
Caroline ORFORD (22) Niece Marr b. Ashford, Kent
Plus One Domestic Servant
__________________________________________________ ___

In case you don't have this one:

CENSUS APRIL 1881 Ref: RG11/1011/28/16
Dwelling: 7 Wellington Terrace, Cheriton, Kent

John ORFORD (47) Head Marr Lodging House Keeper b. Hollingbourne, Kent
Caroline E. (32) Wife Marr b. Ashford, Kent
Emily SWANN (17) Servant Single Housemaid b. Newington, Kent
__________________________________________________ ____

John and Caroline didn't have any children. Her children are from her second marriage (an illegal one to her late sister's husband) Frederick GRANT-SALMON 05 Nov 1883 All Souls Church, Newington, Surrey ...... so she didn't kick her heels after the death of John! :cool:

[Clive Orford]

Thanks so much, Diane, for your reply. In case you are interested, John Orford was born in in Hollingbourne, Kent, and Christened at the Parish Church (All Saint's) on 6 April 1834. He was - as best we can tell - the 10th child (of 15 or 16) of George Orford (1793-1865) and Mary Ann (nee Hope, 1801-1882). Cheerio,

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Many thanks Clive, for the information re John.

I will enter it in my file, as it's interesting to know as much as possible about a spouse, even though one is not researching their line. :)