Coroners Reports 1942-Advice Please

[JoanneB]

My ancester John William Roberts born 1884, died in 1942 in Bredbury. I have been unable to find his full D.O.B., which has stopped me from progressing with his side of the family tree. He arrived in Stockport in 1907 from where I'm not sure, possibly Shropshire/Wales? I have his death certificate but alas it only states his age. I also have a newspaper write up of his inquest, no D.O.B. My question is, will the actual coroners report have his D.O.B. and can I get a copy? Or any other suggestions please. Thank you Joanne
PS
I have just remembered he had a small disability pension from WW1

[DebbieAnn]

The 1891 census for England lists a John William Roberts b: Shropshire, but age at time of census is 9 yrs. making his birth c. 1882. His father William and older brother Thomas William were shoemakers, and he had a sister Mary Ann. His mother was Margaret. They were living in Llanymynech, Shropshire in 1891.

Wales 1891 census shows John William Roberts b: 1884, son of a farmer Hugh, mother Mary, siblings Sarah and Ann Roberts and Robert C. (?) Jones (half-sibling?). Also a John Williams Roberts b: 1883, son of plasterer Thomas, mother Jane, sisters Mary Louisa, Ruth, Margaret Anne, and Theodosha Laura and brothers David Owen, Pryce, Walter, and Levi.

Anything sound familiar?

Debbie

[jeeb]

Hi Joanne,
There is a marriage registered in the March quarter of 1907 at Stockport, is this likely to be your ancestor? If so you need to send for the marriage certificate and it will tell you his father's name. This should help greatly to locate him on 1891/1901 censuses.
Cheers Jeremy.

[JoanneB]

Hello Jeremy,
Hello Debbie,
Thank you both very much for looking. My grandfather John William Roberts was definitely born in 1884, information confirmed from his gravestone and marriage certificate. The marriage certificate in 1907 says father Edward Roberts-Master Butcher deceased (No mention of place) Thats the only information I have except for newspaper report of 'inquest' on John William stating that he received a WW1 pension.
I don't know where to go with this. Thank you Joanne

[DebbieAnn]

Ok, here's what I found:

In 1903, John Edward Roberts age 40 died in Stockport, Cheshire: March qtr (vol 8a pg 29).

So I looked in the 1881 census to find a John, Edward, or John Edward Roberts that was a butcher and would have been born in 1862 or 1863, making him 40 in 1903.

I found John Roberts, butcher, son of Rowland Roberts, butcher, and Elizabeth, butcher's wife. Siblings were Edward, Emma, Selina, and 2 half-siblings: all born Greenwich, Kent except wife Elizabeth.
Address: 2 Blissett St (Royal George)
Civil parish: Greenwich
County/Island: London
RG11/0722
Registration district: Greenwich
Sub-registration district: Greenwich West
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Folio: 31
Page: 13

Edward Martin abt 1866 Greenwich, Kent, England Son 2 Blissett St (Royal George), Greenwich, London, England
Emma Martin abt 1870 Greenwich, Kent, England Daughter 2 Blissett St (Royal George), Greenwich, London, England
Elizabeth Roberts abt 1830 Melksham, Wiltshire, England Wife 2 Blissett St (Royal George), Greenwich, London, England
John Roberts abt 1862 Greenwich, Kent, England Son 2 Blissett St (Royal George), Greenwich, London, England
Rowland Roberts abt 1830 Greenwich, Kent, England Head 2 Blissett St (Royal George), Greenwich, London, England
Selina Roberts abt 1873 Greenwich, Kent, England Daughter 2 Blissett St (Royal George), Greenwich, London, England

If this is the John Edward Roberts that died in 1903, it's possible he is the Edward Roberts, master butcher, who was John William Roberts' father. Maybe it would be worth while to obtain that death certificate and see: 1) if he was a butcher; 2) if his father was Rowland; 3) if a son named John William Roberts signed the death certificate, as he may then have been living in Stockport.

Debbie

[DebbieAnn]

In 1891 census, found John Roberts age 26 grocerie assistant, wife Sarah, son John age 3 (?) living in Stockport, Cheshire. POB is too faint to read, as is wife's occupation. Not a perfect match, but... I've seen ages on marriage certificates and tombstones to be consistent but wrong before... if he was born in 1887/8 he would have been 20, not 23 at marriage in 1907... what was his wife's age at marriage (perhaps he wanted to be older than her?)? I know it's a long shot...

Debbie

[DebbieAnn]

According to 1861 census, Jane (maiden name unknown) was Rowland's first wife. They were lodging in the home of Moses Bennett in Greenwich, Kent. Selina would have been a half-sibling, not a full sibling as I stated above, and Jane would have been John Edward's mother, the grandmother of John William (if this is the correct lineage).

Debbie

[DebbieAnn]

In 1871, Jane age 40 (Rowland's first wife) was living with Rowland's mother Jane age 82 (who was born in Pontffaw, Wales) with her son John, age 8 (this would be John William's father (again, if it's the right line) at 7 Plumridge St, Greenwich, Kent. Jane is a dressmaker, as she was in 1861 when living with Rowland. Her mother-in-law, listed as Head, is a laundress. Neither woman's marital status is given - perhaps Rowland and Jane were living apart or divorced or ??? (I can find no record of Rowland in 1871). There was a marriage of Rowland Roberts in Liverpool, Lancashire in Sep qtr 1871 to either Elizabeth Jones or Esther Moreley (vol 8b pg 310). This could have been to his second wife Elizabeth (did Jane die or were they divorced??). If Jane died after the 1871 census but before Rowland's remarriage, it would explain John's living with Rowland in the 1881 census...

At least this gives you a few interesting thing to check on...

Debbie

[JoanneB]

Hello Debbie,
Thank you for all your hard work. I will work through them this evening, and get back to you later. Thanks again Joanne

[JoanneB]

Hello Debbie,
I have been through your listings carefully. Sadly I cannot see any connection Debbie. I am confident that the little information I have on my grandfather is correct.

1. John William Roberts (born 1884 place unknown) Wales or Shropshire
2. Married 9 Mar 1907 Stockport to (Sarah Elizabeth Jones from Shropshire)
3. Arrived in Stockport c1907, and lived there until he died.
4. Edward Roberts his (FATHER) was a Master Butcher & deceased by 1907

John William Roberts did not come from Stockport but from either Wales or Shropshire. He lived in Stockport from 1907 until he died in 1942, so those years can be forgotten.

I need to find John William Roberts before he arrived in Stockport, and hopefully with his father (Edward Roberts-master butcher).

Debbie do you know if the actual Coroners Report will have to contain John William's full date of birth?
Best wishes Joanne

[jeeb]

Hi Joanne,
I have found this family on the 1871 census in Shrewsbury, I know it can't be John William's parents but it could well be connected:-
Edward Roberts 38 Master Butcher Born Llangollen
Ann wife 33 Born Llangollen
John R son 9 Born Shrewsbury
William son 5 Born Shrewsbury
Charles son 3 Born Shrewsbury
Kitty dau 2 Born Shrewsbury

Also this baptism on IGI:-

Sarah Elizabeth Jones daughter of Thomas & Sarah Elizabeth 24 May 1885 St. Marys, Shrewsbury

Hopefully this might give you a lead.
Jeremy

[DebbieAnn]

Joanne,

No it will not contain his exact date of birth, only his date of death and age. It will list the person who informed of his death, though, along with that person's address. That can sometimes be very helpful.

Debbie

[DebbieAnn]

In the 1891 census there is an Edward Roberts age 34 b: Llangolan, Denbighshire, Wales married to Sarah age 34 b: Ellesmere, Shropshire with children Annie Constance age 8, John Olive age 3, and Edward Stanley age 11 months, all b: Oswestry, Shropshire. Problems: John's middle name not William and Edward's occupation not butcher. <sigh>

(edit) OOPS - John Olive is really Ida Olive... :o

Debbie

[JoanneB]

Hello Jeremy, Thank you very much, your entry made me think! When I was growing up Llangollen was mentioned quite a lot by my mother as being where some deceased relatives originated from. She also said that many years ago they were I think, Hide & Skin Merchants, and I think there was an Austin Roberts amongst them. This is definately food for thought!

I have found the ancestry of Sarah Elizabeth Jones they came from Oswestry, her father was Charles William Jones b.1855 Wolverhampton but lived and worked in Oswestry.

The difficult one's are John William Roberts 1884 and Edward Roberts his father. I have no reason to think that the marriage certificate information that of Edward being a butcher is incorrect, as I have a very vague memory of John William working at the local butchers from time to time in 1942 (like father like son!) maybe.

It is so frustrating to come to a halt so early on with this side of the family. Many thanks Joanne

[JoanneB]

Hello Debbie,
Thank you for the information, so the 'inquest details' will not help me in any way. I have just found out that John William Roberts took a job at the local railway station in 1928, I wonder if there is any mileage there?
Many thanks Joanne