KEEN in Cornwall, c1842 and earlier

[Wendus]

William John Charles KEEN is shown in the 1881 census as having been born in Cornwall, around 1842. He was married in Bermondsey (SE London) in 1873, and on his marriage certificate, his father (William KEEN) is described as 'Gentleman'.

My problem is that I can find no record of the birth/baptism of William John Charles KEEN, and no record of his father, William KEEN.

Also, please could someone tell me what is meant by 'Gentleman'.

Many thanks.

Wendy

[Trish]

Wendy,

I think "Gentleman" usually referred to someone of independent means. Have you found your KEENs on any other census besides 1881?

Trish

[Trish]

Wendy,

It's a little off in terms of William John Charles KEEN's age but the following could be your father and son in 1871...

Reference: RG10/643 Folio 124 Page 16
Address: 17 Russell Street, Rotherhithe [St. Olave Southwark], London
William KEEN* Head 67 Shoemaker born Devon South Molton
Ann KEEN* Wife 67 born Cornwall Madron
?Anncelina [or Auncelina] KEEN* Daur 34 Nurse born Cornwall Penzance
John KEEN** Son 32 Carman born ditto
George KEEN** Son 21 ?Gass fitter at ?Tui Plateworks born ditto
Elizabeth A ?SARCLAR? [or SAICLAR] Grand Daur 7 Scholar born East India Bangalor [or Bangloler]

* mistranscribed as REEN
** mistranscribed as HEEN

HTH,
Trish

[Trish]

Do you have this from the 1891 census?

Reference: RG12/498 Folio 11 Page 15
Address: 3 Croft St, St Paul Deptford, London
Martha STAINTON Head Wid 58 Needle Woman born London Bermondsey
Richard H STAINTON Son 30 Dock Laborer born Cheshire Birkenhead
Minnie L STAINTON Daur 19 Fancy Printer born London Rotherhithe
Herbert W STAINTON Son 17 Factory Laborer born ditto
Alice Maud KEEN Grand Daur 17 Fancy Printer born ditto
Alice BREWERTON [Married] Daur ?36 Laundress born ditto
Mabel ?F KEEN Grand Daur 13 Scholar born ditto
William ?J KEEN Grand Son 11 Scholar born Kent Welling
Beatrice A BREWERTON Grand Daur 2 born Kent Eltham

Looks like John KEEN died after 1881 and Alice remarried -- to a man named BREWERTON. Is this consistent with what you know?

Trish

[Wendus]

Hi Trish

Very many thanks for the info, I appreciate your going to that trouble on my behalf. The 1871 information is definitely worth further investigation, and 'Russell Street' is ringing very loud bells, so it looks as if you may have found the family for me. I never worry too much about age matches, as folk weren't always particularly truthful, and it also depended on who gave the information to the enumerator.

Yep, the Stainton/Keen information is our family, but I didn't have all the 1891 details (and I thought I did ... just shows how wrong one can be!).

Thank you again, your help is very much appreciated.

Wendy

[Trish]

You're most welcome, Wendy.

I should explain that where I have inserted a "?" in the transcriptions I gave you, it indicates that I'm not sure of my translation of the enumerator's handwriting.

The name that looks like "Anncelina" or "Auncelina" on the 1871 census image is particularly perplexing. Do you suppose it could be "Ann Celina" or something similar? I see a few other instances of similar sounding names on the 1871 census: Anncella, Anncelena, Anncilla -- all one word. It's not a name I'm familiar with...

Another puzzle is little 7-year-old Elizabeth's last name -- "SARCLAR" or "SAICLAR". The handwriting is very hard to make out. If I'm not mistaken, I believe I saw her listed on the 1881 census as Elizabeth KEEN. So that makes it hard to ascertain whether she is the offspring of a son or daughter of William. And the fact that she was born in India is interesting. Are her parents still in India or is she an orphan? Any ideas how she might tie in to the KEEN family?

Regards,
Trish

[Trish]

Wendy,

This looks like your KEEN family in 1861:

Reference: RG9/1595 Folio 8 Page 10
Address: 45 Queen ?Street, Penzance, Cornwall
William KEEN Head 58 Cordwainer born Devon South Molton
Anne KEEN Wife 52 born Cornwall Penzance
Elizabeth KEEN Daur 21 Assistant ?House Keeper born ditto
George KEEN Son 12 School born ditto

John and Anncelina are not with the family.

Trish

[Trish]

Sorry, I can't resist giving you this one, too, from 1861 -- could be a son of William and elder brother of John:

Reference: RG9/1595 Folio 5 Page 3
Address: 10 Queen Street, Madron, Cornwall
Thomas KEEN Head 30 Shoe Maker born Cornwall, Penzance
Harriott [sic] KEEN Wife 32 born Cornwall, Penzance
Catherine M. KEEN Daur 4 born Scilly Island "St. Marys"
Ellen KEEN Daur 2 born Cornwall, Penzance

By 1871, Thomas and Harriet and children, Catherine, Ellen, William and Thomas are living in St. Ives, Cornwall.

Thomas also shows up on the 1851 census sample, aged 21, unmarried, visiting with a family named TRIGG at 10 Bath Street, Plymouth: William TRIGGS, 30, Kate TRIGGS, 27, and Kate TRIGGS, 12, all born in the Plymouth area. Thomas's occupation is Bootmaker. Maybe Kate was an older sister?

Trish

[Scottie]

Sorry, I can't resist giving you this one, too, from 1861 -- could be a son of William and elder brother of John:
TrishHi,
Like Trish I cannot resist giving you this KEEN family that have lots of children born in Egloshayle. He is James Keen born 1811 in Devon and wife Eliza Osborne born 1810 in Ireland. He is a Coach Painter and stays in the area from 1841 through to 1871first in Wadebridge then Bodmin. Their first son Richard is not born Cornwall but they have Sarah A. 1840 Egloshayle, Thomas 1842, Emma 1844, John 1847, Jack 1851 and Louis 1851 all born Egloshayle. I wonder if they are any relation as it is an unusual name in this area. :D

[marlin1945]

As a Keen descendant I am hopefull that you can help me with my UK origins. You seem to have your finger on the pulse re the family in the UK. As messages have to be short to not have problems :
Samuel KEEN b. 05 Dec 1818 Sth. Molton Devon England d. 21 Jun 1871 Goolwa South Australia. m. 06 Sep 1852 Chatham Nth. Devon England. Sally INGERSON b. 10 Jan 1821 Barnstable Devon England d. 20 Feb 1906 Brompton South Australia 7 children ( data available ) parents : Samuel : George KEEN B. d. m. Prudence ? b. d. other issue for parents ?
I am "keen" to swap data. family names from UK ( Cornwall) Holman, Coombe, Taylor, Cupitt, Upton and many more - all Australian emigrants. Family tree available.
Cheers from Australia.

[Rob H]

As a Keen descendant I am hopefull that you can help me with my UK origins. You seem to have your finger on the pulse re the family in the UK. As messages have to be short to not have problems :
Samuel KEEN b. 05 Dec 1818 Sth. Molton Devon England d. 21 Jun 1871 Goolwa South Australia. m. 06 Sep 1852 Chatham Nth. Devon England. Sally INGERSON b. 10 Jan 1821 Barnstable Devon England d. 20 Feb 1906 Brompton South Australia 7 children ( data available ) parents : Samuel : George KEEN B. d. m. Prudence ? b. d. other issue for parents ?
I am "keen" to swap data. family names from UK ( Cornwall) Holman, Coombe, Taylor, Cupitt, Upton and many more - all Australian emigrants. Family tree available.
Cheers from Australia.
Now on site as Rob H.

[GeoffD]

Now look what you've done! You've set me off on a quest to find out more about Richard KEEN, b.c.1844, Penzance, spouse of Susan DREW, m. June 1865, Madron.

(Note: Richard might not have been born in Penzance. Another certificate to chase after!)