CARTER, Shouldham Thorpe

[BeeE586]

Geoffers - I am taking you at your word and asking, since Norfolk might just as well be on the moon for all I know about it, the county has never entered into my research ever.

I am trying to help a friend with Norfolk and Suffolk ancestry, and through the free 1901 census I think I have found the right families and also in 1881.

Living at New Common Marsh, Terrington St Clement in 1881

Head William Carter b c1836 at NFK Shouldham Thorpe Ag Lab
Wife Elizabeth Carter b c1842 at NFK Wretton
and 6 childen including my friend's grandfather
Ernest John Carter b c1878 at Terrington St Clements

Al the other children were born at Wretton, the eldest, Alfred George, being born c1868

I have looked on the IGI but these parishes seem not to have been covered. I wonder, please, if you have access to earlier Census or perhaps Parish Registers, or can point me in the right direction. I have looked at the web addresses you posted, but without background knowledge of the county I am a little lost.

Your help will be very much appreciated

Eileen

[Geoffers]

I've split off your message to create a new thread

The eldest child that I can see on the 1881 census is William Samuel Carter. He appears in the GRO birth index in Dec 1865, William Samuel CARTER, Downham, 4b, 345 (do check this in case I've made a mistake). Most of the births of this family should appear in the Downham Registration District (volume 4b). Applying for the birth certificate of one of the children should show the mother's maiden name which will help to locte the parents' marriage certificate.

Searching the GRO index for a suitable marriage shows that a William CARTER and an Elizabeth CORK both married at Downham RD in Dec 1858, vol. 4b, page 1067.

continued....

[Geoffers]

part 2.......

Could Elizabeth CORK be born in Wretton? Searching the 1851 census confirms that someone of that name was:
HO107/1830 f598 p15
Wretton
Samuel LANCASTER, Head, Wid, 60, Gardener, Stoke Ferry
Samuel LANCASTER, Son, Unm, 21, Gardener, Wretton
William LANCASTER, Son, Unm, 21, Gardener, Wretton
William CORK, SonL, Mar, 30, Gardener & Labourer, Boughton
Susan CORK, Wife(Daur), Mar, 34, , Wretton
George CORK, Son, , 12, , Wretton
Elizabeth CORK, dau, 9, , Wretton
continued.....

[Geoffers]

part 3.......

So, if marriage found in the GRO index is correct, the couple should show as married in the 1861 census. Here there is a entry which fits in Wretton:

RG9/1261 f31 p15 sch.85
Wretton
William CARTER, hd, mar, 26, farmer 175 acres, employing 6 men 1 boy, bn Shouldham
Elizabeth Carter, wf, mar, 20, bn Wretton
Amy Carter, dau, 2, bn Wretton
Mary (C?) Carter, dau, 7mth, bn Wretton

continued....

[Geoffers]

part 4.......

So, if William was a humble ag.lab in 1881, he appears to have had a collapse in fortune. Looking at the 1851 census, therer is an entry which fits William, although the birthplace is slightly different. There is though, still reference to Shouldham Thorpe, so I think it likely to be the correct entry:

HO107/1830 f603 p24
Side of Dereham Road, Wretton
William CARTER, Head, Mar, 63, Farm Of 120 Acres Employing 4 Laborers, Shouldham Thorpe
Sarah CARTER, Wife, Mar, 50, , Hilgay
William CARTER, Son, Unm, 16, , Hilgay
Elizabeth CARTER, Daur, Unm, 12, , Shouldham Thorpe
Dinah BLYTHE, Serv, Unm, 20, House Servant, Stradsett

continued....

[Geoffers]

part 5......

There is not very much for Norfolk on the IGI, you have to use the parish registers which are available in Record Offices, or hire them in one of the mormon church (LDS) record centres. There are many online maps to help you put these places in context.

If this family had a substantial farm, they are likely to be recorded in the directories which can be purchased from Archvie CD Books, and otehrs. They amy also appear in poll books, the Land Tax Returns 1798, Tithe Redemption Returns, etc, etc. There should be lots of information out there to trace this family back in time. There are several web-sites to assist, the URLs have been posted on messages on the Norfolk forum.

If your friend gets stuck, please ask

Geoffers

[Geoffers]

As a postscript to my previous messages, there seem to be an awful lot of CARTERs in and around Wretton/Shouldham area. I quickly found three in the 1841 census:

HO107/755/04 f6 p7 - Shouldham Thorpe - William aged 1
HO107/755/18 f10 p1 - Wretton - William aged 1
HO107/755/18 f12 p5 - Wretton - William aged 4

With some many people of the same name, your friend will have to tread carefully, making sure to purchase relavant certifiactes along the way to ensure that the correct line is followed.

Incidentally the Cork family are at HO107/755/18 f17 p14

Geoffers

[BeeE586]

Geoffers - how very kind of you to go to so much trouble. Since my first posting I have further investigated the links you gave originally and found Carter references in White's directories for Shouldham Thorpe, a William, victualler at the 'Gate' in 1845, and in 1883 a Mrs Sarah - no designation.

The 1881 census for Shouldham Thorpe gave me a John age 45 and Leonard age 41, both married to Sarah Ann (just to make life awkward). These could well be brothers to the William, father of Ernest John.

I have only my road atlas for reference, but I noticed that Wretton and Shouldham Thorpe are very close together and suspected that Downham Market would be the registration district. Terrington St Clements is not a million miles away either.

I am seeing my friend tomorrow (sadly at a funeral), so I will print your posting and take it, with my own printouts, for his perusal along with family details he already has, and, no doubt, receive his further instructions. He lives in Lincolnshire, is younger and fitter than I am, and knows the area so could well visit archives. I'm afraid that my nearest LDS library is north of Sheffield - I live south - and a 15 mile drive could well take over an hour through very heavy traffic; I just don't do it any more.

Sincere thanks from both of us. No doubt I shall be posting again.

Eileen

[Geoffers]

Sorry to read that your friend is at a funeral - but if ,when he feels back up to looking into his family, he gets stuck and needs advice - please post a message.

I was just browsing the Norfolk Genealogy volume, "Norfolk Archdeaconry Marriage Licecne Bonds 1813-1837", looking for something else. First page I opened the book at my eye lighted upon:

ANF/12/71/16. 5 Mar 1833. CARTER, William, sm 25, Shouldham Thorpe & PRIOR Sarah, sw, 21 of Shouldham Thorpe. Marriage took palce at Shouldham Thorpe.

This is presumably the chap who was farming 120 acres in 1851.

Geoffers

[BeeE586]

A progress report, Geoffers.

My friend came back home with me after the funeral and was delighted with our respective offerings. Neither of us had any idea that there were quite so many CARTER's until you pointed this out so, as he does not have internet facilities, today I have found every mention of the name born Shouldham Thorpe, Wretton or Terrington St Clement 1901 and printed out the family groups and then found the heads of families in 1881 and printed similar family groups. Hopefully he will be able to form some idea of relationships before looking at registers or sending for certificates.

Sadly, he is of the opinion that the affluent William is not his forbear, just the common ag lab which is how it is for most of us !!

We are grateful |bowdown|

Eileen

[Geoffers]

Thanks for the update; there could well be two Williams born about the same year in Shouldham Thorpe, who married two Elizabeths born about the same year in Wretton - but at the moment it is the best match that I could locate. It does show that casre is needed to avoid following the wrong line and to proceed methodically.

Presumably the Ernest John Carter you mentioned in your first post is your friend's direct ancestor - if so, it would seem that his is the birth certificate needed in order to move his research forward. Freebmd does show a possible match born in Wisbech in 1877, with an Arthur James Carter registerd in the same quarter and district.

Geoffers

[BeeE586]

Geoffers

Yes, Ernest John was his grandfather and of course he does know his father's DOB, so he was going to fax for both certificates. The only document he has is his parents' marriage certificate. Marshall of SFK Cavenham was his father, and I am proceeding along the same lines for that name - thankfully there are fewer of them !!

It is years since I had anything to do with census - most of my own research is now 17th/early 18th century and much more difficult - but I am enjoying this, it is a whole new ball game.

Eileen