More UK Records Scuttlebuck?

[Ken Boyce]

This may be an appropiate time to raise the matter of the UK Merchant Navy Records. Does anyone on this Forum have knowledge of what happened to the UK Merchant Marine Records?

Some time ago, while attempting to trace my father’s WWII records the trail led to piles of cardboard boxes shipped to Newfoundland by the agency responsible for their safe-keeping (GRO?). These then appeared to have disappeared and were never returned to the UK. One story I was given was that they were sent to Canada for indexing but the funding ran out after they were shipped. The last piece of information I came across was a letter to an MP protesting the SALE of these records to a North American University

I was never able to find the truth of the matter.

Unfortunately my file of notes on this sad state of affairs went to heaven.

Hopefully someone out there knows the truth.

Regards

PS I'm aware of the existing BT Records

[Geoffers]

The following is a precis consisting of a series of extracts from; "Tracing Your Ancestors in the Public Record Office." (6th edition) Amanda BEVAN publ. PRO, ISBN 1 903365 34 1. The quotes appear on pages 340 and 341 and may partly answer your question.

Section 26.6 Registration of Seamen 1913-1941
"The Central Indexed Register (sometimes referred to as the Fourth Register of Seamen) was started on index cards in October 1913 and was mainatianed until 1941. About 1.25 million cards survive in all."............."there is very little for 1913 to 1920. .......these years were destroyed in error in 1969." (the book indicates other sources for these years). ......"The CR1 cards, 1921-1941 (BT349) are arranged alphabetically by surname."......."The CR2 cards, 1921-1941 (BT348), are arranged numerically by discharge number......"

continued.......

[Geoffers]

It seems possible that the above are copies for the book continues.......
"The Southampton City Archives now has the original index cards, and are able to provide better copies of the cards and particularly any photos attached to them."

Section 26.7 Registration of officers, seamen and women, 1941-1972 and seamen's pouches 1913-1972.
In 1941 the Essential Work (Merchant Navy Order) created a Merchant Navy Reserve Pool to ensure that men would always be available to man vessels..........All those who had been at sea during the previous five years were required to register and a new Central Register of Seamen (sometimes referred to as the Fifth Register of Seamen) was established. CR! and CR2 cards of those still serving in 1941 were removed from the old Central Indexed Register, and placed in the new Central Register........"

continued......

[Geoffers]

"The Seamen's Pouches are in BT372, and are easily found. You can do an online search in PROCAT using the surname and BT372............."the book continues: "Unfortunately, there is no longer a pouch for every seaman or woman. It seems that puches with dishcarge numbes below 95000 were destroyed sometime before 1988. In other cases pouches were not created, or do not survive."

"Fortunately the docket books in BT382 cover any gap. The main series give place and date of birth, dishcarge number, rank or rating (with certificate numbers for officers), details of other qualifications, and details of ships served on.......These are arranged in a number of sub-series, and then alphabetically by surname."

For Southampton City Archives. see:
http://www.southampton.gov.uk/leisure/archives/

Geoffers

[Geoffers]

P.S. The Memorial University of Newfoundland has many of the crew lists for 1863-1976 and provides a research and copying service for a fee.

I hope that all helps a little

Geoffers

[AnnB]

If I can just add to what Geoffers has said, I have just recently obtained photocopies of 3 of my ancestors index cards from Southampton Archives. In 2 of the cases, there was even a photo :)

Unfortunately, the ones I really wanted weren't there, they were probably part of the batch destroyed during the 1960's - oh well, you win some and, in my case, lose the ones you really want :(

Southampton Archives are very friendly and helpful, so I would say give them a go, using the link Geoffers has provided.
Good luck
Ann

[Ken Boyce]

Wow in addition to making my tuch tiepin pail in comparison to yours what a goldmine of factual information you are Geoffers!

Your detailed précis contained much that was lacking in my memory of what was in my files. However, I do remember a web site which was dedicated to raising awareness of the fact that Merchant Marine records were leaving the UK and UKers possibly having to pay a non-UK organization to access them. I also remember some exmariner or relative making a ph call to Halifax NS and being told that the records were in storage and were inaccessible. It was recent events which reminded me of this parallel. I realize now that being a raw newbie I never checked what other records were available in the UK before giving up the quest.

I lost contact with my deceased father's family after my mother remarried in 1945 and know little about that side of the family except for what is in the CWGC and Tower Hill Citations and some information I obtained through a Merchant Navy Association. He was lost at sea in 1st March 41 whilst on an Atlantic Convey run. From what information I have he most likely volunteered in 39 early 40.

Based on information obtained through this forum, I recently forked out some money and browsed through various online marine and navy index resources, unfortunately with no success. In reading your posting and during the writing of this reply it suddenly occurs to me that my emphasis has been on his death not his record.

Thanks to you I now have some more possibilities.

Ronald Douglas Boyce b. 24 November 1912 Barnet
d. 1 March 1941 Atlantic Ocean SS Pacific

Regards