Preece/Morton Amersham 1851 Look Up

[E Skelton]

I’m looking for Ellen Preece (nee Morton), b. 1829 in Amersham and husband John Preece, b. 1818 in Herefordshire. d. before 1871. I’ve tried to trace their marriage certificate but can not find them in any of the BMD indexes. According to the 1861 census for Brentford, Middlesex their first born daughter, Ann, was born 1850 in Amersham. I think this means most likely that they lived in the Amersham area when the 1851 census was taken. Can anyone help to look them up please?

[busyglen]

Hi,

Can't find Ellen Preece/Norton in BKM on the 1851, sorry! Also, the only John I could find was shown as 38 (could have been mis-transcribed and should have been 33?) however, he was living with the Rector of Gt. Brickhill as a servant, and shown as a Widower. He was also shown as being born in Abedon, HEF, so don't know if this is the right one.

However....I also found John Preece aged 7, William Preece aged 5 and Sarah Preece aged 3 living with a servant in Gt. Brickhill. No sign of parents? `Could' this be the right family and the first Mrs Preece died, and around 1851/2 John married Ellen who went on to produce Ann?

Sorry couldn't find anything more positive.

Glenys

[jeeb]

I looked at this family in Brentford on the 1861 census after finding the index has some of the family as Price and some as Peace. I know the index leaves a lot to be desired sometimes but it seems most likely the name is Price. Whatever, it definately isn't Preece. Are you sure you have the right family?
With regards, Jeremy.

[E Skelton]

Thank you Glenys for trying to help me finding Ellen and John on the 1851 census. It could well be that John was a widower at the time he married Ellen. But in the 1861 census for Brentford John is entered as “labourer” and on the birth certificate for their 5th child, Elizabeth Fanny, he is entered as ”carter”. So that might indicate that it isn’t him. Would it be likely that he would go from being a servant to a labourer/carter do you think?

Thanks once again for trying to help me.

Elisabeth

[E Skelton]

Thank you ”jeeb” for your reply. You are of course right when it comes to the spelling of the surname Preece. There are a lot of ways of spelling it. This is the information that I’ve managed to gather. But I can’t find the information to apply for their marriage certificate.

I’ve found the family in the 1861 census for Ealing, Brentford (PRO Ref. RG9/779) John and Ellen lived at 144 High Street. 43 year old John is entered as “labourer” while 33 year old Ellen is “launderer”. Living at home are: Ann, 11, Thomas, 8, Ellen, 4 and Eliza, 2.

On the 1863 birth certificate for daughter Elizabeth Fanny Preece (GRO Ref. 1863/Mar/Brentford/ 3a/67) the family lived at Star Yard in Old Brentford. John is entered “carter”.

In the 1871 census for Acton, Middlesex (PRO Ref. RG10/1322), Ellen is found with the surname Preast at (illegible) Cottage. She is entered as “widow” and “lodger” with the occupation “washer woman”. Her birthplace is entered as “not known”. 4 children are living with her at this address.


In the 1881 census for Acton, Middlesex (PRO Ref. RG11/1355), Ellen (spelled Hellen on census) lives at Strafford Road, 1 Laburnham Cottages, together with her daughter Elizabeth. Ellen is still a lodger and is entered as “washer” while 19 year old Elizabeth is an “ironer”.

On daughter Elizabeth’s 1885 wedding certificate (GRO Ref. 1885/Jun/Brentford/3a/69), John is entered as “labourer”.

In the 1891 census for Acton, Middlesex (PRO Ref. RG12/1037), Ellen lives at Lion House, Saville Road together with daughter Ellen and her husband Edward James. Ellen, 34, is entered as “laundress” and Edward, 32, as “lath renderer”. They’ have 5 children living at home.

In the 1901 census for Acton, Middlesex (PRO Ref. RG13/1204), Ellen still lives with her daughter Ellen and son-in-law Edward. The address is now 6 Saville Road. Edward is entered as “laundry proprioter”. They have 6 children living at home.

Have you got any ideas of how I can find more information further back in time?

Thanks!

Elisabeth

[jeeb]

Hi Elisabeth,
I know you are going to hate me for saying this but I fear you may be on the wrong tracks here. The John Price you say is your John Preece on the 1861 census is 63 and born in 1798 (Not 1818) I'm afraid I don't think the Ellen Preast on the 1871 census is the same Ellen either, age and birthplace are not the same as the 1861 Ellen nor are the children really the same names and ages to make me feel sure they are the same family. Though the Ellen on 1871 census may possibly be your line I think you are treading on very thin ice if you think that is the same family on 1861 census. Sorry, hope you can prove me wrong. Incidently my mother in law's maiden name was Preece from Herefordshire but I have not found a common link with you yet!Cheers Jeremy.

[E Skelton]

Hi Jeremy!

Thanks very much for responding. You might be right. The reason I think it definately is my Ellen and John on the 1861 census though is that Ellen is entered as being born in Amersham, Buckinghamshire.

On the 1881 census it says she is born in Hammersham, Buckinghamshire and that is definately my Ellen and Elizabeth that is entered on that census.

Additional information for the 1885 marriage certificate for Elizabeth Fanny Preece and Alfred Charles Skelton, John Preece is entered as “deceased”. The address for Elizabeth Fanny is 42 Grove Road, Acton. The witnesses were Thomas and Emily Preece. Could this be the brother that is on the 1861 census?

The reason why I thought it was my family on the 1871 census is partly because of the address being Acton. Not all the ages and names tie up of course but as Ian Preece from the web site “www.preece67.fsnet.co.uk” wrote to me: “I think a lot of fibbing went on with ages, and some people just weren't sure. The place of birth is given as not known on a number of returns, they sometimes put a county but no place, I guess they actually didn't know where they were born or as you say someone else was answering the questions and didn't know. Shame we'll never know!”

What do you suggest me to do next? I’m really eager to find the right line.

Thanks one again!

Elisabeth

[jeeb]

Hi Elisabeth,
Tricky one this as there never seems to be a right marriage at the right time. You need to try and find this John Preece/Price on the 1851 census, can't help you with that I'm afraid. If he is your right line his age in 1861 is 63 making him born 1798. I have checked the Herefordshire IGI under Preece & Price for the years around that date and 1818 just in case, nothing really suitable. I don't recognise that birthplace as a Herefordshire place but I can't really decipher it either. What worries me is if Ellen knew her birthplace in 1861/1881 she would know it in 1871 (unless she wasn't present and the head of the house filled it in)
I have found an Eleanor Morton baptised to Thomas & Elizabeth Morton at Amersham 15 May 1828 but I think that is a long shot, but proves the family name was there at least.
In response to another reply you gave to someone on here, it is quite likely in that period that, the same man could be described as a servant, lab, or carter within a short period of time.
Cheers Jeremy

[E Skelton]

Hello again!

I’m very grateful that you’re trying to help me. It is probably best if I try to get hold of the complete 1851 census for Buckinghamshire and go through it page by page.

When it comes to John’s age on the 1861 census I still think is 43 (look at the age for the person a the top of the page that says 64, the 4 looks more alike than the 6 on the age entered for John, don’t you think?). But even so, like you said, you can’t find him in the Herefordshire IGI anyway.

I’ve applied for a 1866 death certificate for a John Preece after a tip from Ian Preece. It turned out not to be “my” John unfortunately. So no further information there either.

I understand your concern for the birthplace being entered “not known” on the 1871 census, but again like you said, she probably wasn’t present when the census was taken.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Elisabeth

[busyglen]

Elisabeth, if you give me a while, I will have another look on the 1851 for you....I didn't look for Price so something may turn up. I'm a bit short on time but will try later today if I can.

Glenys

[jeeb]

Hi Elisabeth,
I have found this entry on the 1881 census which solves a little bit of the mystery:-
Acton Middlesex. RG11/1355. Folio 88 Page 55
200 Hanbury Rd
Edward James Head 21 Lathe render Born Marylebone
Ellen James Wife 23 Laundress Born Kew
Edward James Son 10mths Born Acton
Emily Preece (No relationship given) 15 General Svt. Born Kew

Emily must be Ellen's sister, daughter of John & Ellen Preece. The witness on Elizabeth's wedding, but alas I can't find Emily on the 1871 census either. There is an Emily Preece born 1866, an orphan in Birmingham but she is still there in 1881 so that eliminates her. I will have another good look at that age on the 1861 census but I did compare it with other 4's & 6's before and I do think it is 63!
Cheers Jeremy

[busyglen]

Had another look for Price/Preece/Prees/Priest and other variants shown on the 1851 Bucks. but sorry....couldn't find either John or Ellen. I looked in all places, not just Amersham. There were a few but either too young or too old, and didn't appear to link.
:(

Glenys

[jeeb]

Hi Elisabeth,
Sorry Elisabeth, but it is definately age 63. Look where it says 136 in the top left hand corner under schedule number and compare that 6 with your John's age then look at the 4's in the rest of the schedules, there is no way that age is 43!
Cheers Jeremy.

[jeeb]

Hi Glenys,
I noticed you have been also trying to help Elisabeth with this elusive family, I don't agree with Elisabeth about the age given on the 1861 census, perhaps if you have access you would like to give your opinion. I think his age is 63.( Elisabeth thinks 43) To locate him look under John Price born 1798 and birth place is given as Bloryfield, I also think this is incorrect as I don't know of such a place in Herefordshire. See what you think!
Cheers Jeremy.

[busyglen]

Hi Jeremy

I'm afraid I don't have access to the 1861 only the 1851, otherwise I should be happy to have had a look. There are so many mis-transcriptions and misspellings by enumerators, that it is so difficult to piece things together isn't it?

I'm happy to dig deeper in the 1851 if necessary, but when I saw that you thought the age was 63 in 1861, I had another look for him in the 1851 aged 53. I suspect due to his age, that he had probably left Bucks at this time, which is why we can't find him. He could have moved to another area of MDX?

Let me know if you have any other ideas on the '51 as I shall be happy to have a look.

Glenys

[jeeb]

Hi Glenys & Elisabeth,
Thanks for getting back to me on this. I know you Elisabeth, seem fairly certain this is your family on the 1861 census though I have my reservations. The name is given as John Price and I feel certain his age is 63 as indeed the indexer does and it says he is born Bloryfield Herefordshire. The county is right but the birth place is almost illegible but I don't think it is 'Bloryfield' it looks more like it is --eughfield.
His wife is 'Elem' born 'Ammersham, Bucks' but could easily be Ellen and they have 4 children with them. The only one old enough to be on 1851 census is Ann, born 'Ammersham' 1850. There is an 8 year old son Thomas with them in 1861, born Chiswick. I have found a Thomas Price in 1871 born Chiswick, he is a lodger in the right area. If this is the right family it leads me to believe that Ellen changed the name from Price to Preast/Preece and it is Price you need to search for on 1851 and probably a Price birth and marriage. This is the conclusion I have arrived at and either or both of you may disagree but it gives another dimension for research!
Cheers, Jeremy

[jeeb]

Hi again Elisabeth,
I think you will be very interested in this baptism I have found:-

Ann dau of Ellen Morton bap 19 May 1850 Amersham Bucks.

I have also found Ellen dau of John & Ellen Prece bap. 2 May 1858 St Andrew Holborn
This couple also have David John Prece 14 May 1859 St Andrew Holborn. I have found this David on BMD and he is Preece. I can't find the family in 1861 census apart from the family you already know about and they have a daughter Eliza born 1859 with them. This just complicates things further because we now know there was probably another John & Ellen Preece in London at the same time!
Jeremy

[E Skelton]

Hi Jeremy!

You’ve given me so many new ideas that I don’t know where to start.

The baptism of Ann in Amersham 1850 sounds very interesting. Where did you find that information? Do you think that John wasn’t Ann’s father? Maybe that’s why Glenys can’t find the family in the 1851 census. What do you recon?

Regarding the age being 63 on the 1861 census you’re probably right. I’ve tested it on several people and half of them say 63.

I’ve tried to look up a suitable place for John’s birth place. Could it be Ploughfield do you think? There is a place called that between Hereford and Hay-on-Wye.

Do you really think it says Price and not Prece, as the surname on the 1861 census by the way?

Your Emily find is also very interesting. That is a possibility to be the witness on Elizabeth Fanny’s wedding certificate. The family she is staying and working for is the same that mother Ellen later is found to be staying with.

I want you to know that I really appreciate both your and Glenys’ engagement in this mysterious case.

Thanks a lot.

Elisabeth

[jeeb]

Hi Elisabeth,
With regards to the questions you have raised. It is my opinion that John Price/Preece would most likely be the father of Ann, she took his name. Now whether John and Ellen ever married is debatable but I think all the children would be his. I think it is also more than likely they had moved to Middlesex by 1851, thus the reason Glenys can't find them in Bucks.
Now to the 1861 census, we both know how illegible the writing is. It could quite easily be Prece, especially in the case of the 2 youngest children. Actually I had decided John's birth place was Ploughfield but was unable to locate anywhere of that name in Herefordshire, now you have informed me there is such a place, I would say it is a fairly safe bet that is correct.
On the 1871 census Ellen Preast has another child with her but it is completely obliterated by a ink blob, (typical!) This could however be the elusive Emily and that would solve the problem if Ellen is your Ellen. I will endeavour to keep searching for you. Cheers Jeremy.

[E Skelton]

Hello again Jeremy!

Thanks for your reply. Why do you think Ellen's maiden name was entered on Ann's baptism record and no mention of John?

Please can you tell me where the baptism records are held.

Elisabeth

[jeeb]

Hi Elisabeth,
The reason the baptismal record for Ann shows only Ellen's maiden name is almost certainly because Ann will be illegitamate. This information was taken from the IGI, the parish register will give you extra information but I doubt very much if it will say the father's name. It will give her abode (most likely just the town/village) and possibly her occupation but most likely will just say 'single woman'
The Amersham registers are deposited at Bucks County Record Office, Aylesbury.
The Eleanor Morten bap. at Amersham 15 May 1828 may be worth a closer look, it could well be Ellen. She is the daughter of Thomas & Elizabeth Morten.

Jeremy.

[jeeb]

Hi again Elisabeth,
I can't find a lot of information about Ploughfield, Herefordshire, but I am a little concerned about anyone seeing the site information that comes up on my computer when I type it in and the activities that appear to go on there, we'll leave it at that!!
It does for our purposes seem as if it was/is a small hamlet or borough between Hereford and Hay on Wye. The nearest parish I can find to it is Preston on Wye where a John Price is baptised June 1799 to a William & Catherine. Worth noting maybe?
Cheers Jeremy.

[E Skelton]

Hello again Jeremy!

Thanks for your replies. I know what you mean with strange goings on in Ploughfield. Never mind!

I found Ann Morten, Amersham in the Free BMD index for June 1850. As I’m not able to go to Aylesbury to check the baptismal records (not for a while anyway) I thought maybe I should apply for her birth certificate. Do you think that would be a good idea or a waste of time? I really feel that I’m at a standstill right now.

If you’ve got access to Free BMD (http://freebmd.rootsweb.com) and go in under view images, births, 1850, june, M, 1850B2-M-0657. Can you see what the volume is? I can only see VI but do you think is should say XVI or not?

Thanks in advance.

Elisabeth

[jeeb]

Hi Elisabeth,
The volume is V1 page 317. I am not really sure what more you will find on the birth certificate than we have already assumed. It will tell you the mother which we already know. What you will learn from it is actual date of birth, mother's maiden name but we think that is fairly certainly Morten and the name of informant, (that may be useful, but it is likely to be Ellen herself). It may give you a lead to the place where Ellen was living, remember Amersham is only the registration district so could well point you in the right direction for the 1851 and even 1841 census. Be interesting to see if John Preece/Price was in the area. Go for it, I think it's a fairly safe bet it will be your family so you may as well have the certificate. Keep me informed.
Jeremy

[E Skelton]

Hi Glenys!

I've had a thought. I wonder if it is possible for you to look at a particular page on the 1851 census? I know it is a long shot but you never know.

As you might have read, Jeremy has found Ellen's first daughter Ann in the records with the surname Morten. I've found a newsletter about the British Institutet of Organ Studies where a couple of Mortens are mentioned. What's interesting is that the census references are entered from where information has been taken.

It says "The Mortens came from Amersham, and were evidently persons of substance: Thomas is listed as a chemist, and a William Morten as ‘Gentleman’, both of the High Street, in the 1846/47 Post Office Directory for Beds and Bucks. Thomas was then described as ‘Chemist, aged 30’ of 60 High Street in 1851,1 and ‘Landed Proprietor and Merchant and Chemist’ at 62 High Street in 1861.12 Thomas’s son Alfred, aged 2, was listed in 1851, but not in 1861. By 1871 the Mortens had gone from the High Street."

The 1851 census references is HO107/1717/340. Could you please check if Ellen (or Eleanor) Morten was living at this address?

Thanks very much in advance.

Elisabeth

[busyglen]

Here we go then Elisabeth,

Amersham Pt.1
Piece 1717, Folio 340, Schedule 0060
High St.

MORTEN, Thomas H, head, m, 30, Chemist etc. b. Amersham, BKM
MORTEN, Emma M, wife, m, 28, b. Amersham, BKM
DIX, Richard J ? ass. u, 20, shop assistant, b. Long Buckby, NTH
RANCE, Mary, sv, u, 28, b. Ellsboro, BKM
HOARE, Mary. sv, u, 50, b. Amersham, BKM
MORTEN, Thomas, son, 8, b. Amerham, BKM
MORTEN, William, son, 7, b. Amersham, BKM
MORTEN, Edward, son, 5, b. Amersham, BKM
MORTEN, Alfred, son, 2, b. Amersham, BKM
MORTEN, Alexander, son, 2m, b. Amersham, BKM

I'm sorry that I didn't pursue the Morton's....I was concentrating on Preece, although there wasn't an Ellen Morton. If I had searched variants, I may have found this, but as Ellen is a wife named Morton, I may have missed the fact that it was possible she had been married before she wed Preece.

Sorry I hadn't been able to continue the search recently.....the place is upside down with workmen, and I haven't had chance to do much on the pc.

Hope this is of some help, and if I can look anything else up on the 1851 please let me know. :)
Glenys

[E Skelton]

Hello Glenys!

Thanks ever so much for helping me looking up that particular page of the 1851 census. It really was a longshot and unfortunately she wasn't listed as living there. I understand that other things are more important, but when you've got a chance would you be able to see if you can find Ellen (or Eleanor) and Ann Morten living in the area?

Many thanks.

Elisabeth

[jeeb]

Hi Elisabeth,
I think you are probably banging your head against a brick wall trying to find Ellen in Buckinghamshire in 1851, is is most likely she will already be in Middlesex by then. See if someone has access to Buckinghamshire for 1841 and search for Ellen in Amersham area, plus possibly John Preece/Price but unlikely to be together in 1841. Also ask for a search of Middlesex for 1851 under MORTEN/PREECE/PRICE, you will probably have more success. I don't think there will be any connection with Ellen and the 'Morten' Chemist in Amersham.

Jeremy

[busyglen]

Hello Glenys!

Thanks ever so much for helping me looking up that particular page of the 1851 census. It really was a longshot and unfortunately she wasn't listed as living there. I understand that other things are more important, but when you've got a chance would you be able to see if you can find Ellen (or Eleanor) and Ann Morten living in the area?

Many thanks.

Elisabeth

Elisabeth, they were the only Mortens that came up in that area. Like Jeremy, I think that she was probably in Middlesex by the 1851, which is why we can't find her.

Hope you have some luck soon.

Glenys.

[E Skelton]

Hello Jeremy and Glenys!

Thanks for both your replies.

You’re probably right that she’ve moved from the area by 1851. I just wanted to establish that before I ask for a look up in the 1851 Middlesex census. I thought there might be more Mortens in the area as I’ve now found new information when I’ve searched on the Internet about a brewery

“known as the Bury End or Morten Brewery. This was situated on the south side of London Road almost opposite the ‘Chequers’. It appears to have been begun by Thomas Allen Morten in either the late 1830s or early 1840s. According to ‘Pigot and Co’s Directory for 1830, Morten began business as a corn dealer in the High Street before moving to London Road as a "corn dealer and brewer" sometime prior to 1842 (‘Pigot and Co’s Directory, (1830) p.70 and (1842) p.3). Hereafter the business must have expanded rapidly because the 1851 census records 22 men being in his employment. Thomas Morten probably died in the late 1850s at which time his son John Hailey Morten inherited the brewery. The 1881 census records the latter living on the brewery premises along with his wife Eliza and their 6 daughters. John Morten is last recorded in Kelley’s (Kelley’s Directory (1883) p.275 and (1887) p.313) in 1883 and is absent in 1887, a fact which suggests that the brewery closed on his death.”

Another search that I did came up with a hit (archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BUCKS/2001-07/0996571634) when someone is writing the following:
“There are 19 Mortens listed in the 1851 census for Amersham, but not one of them a Henry! In case you have not seen this census, here are the details -

In High Street (in fact, given the enumerator's listings, in Broadway, south side)-

Thomas Morten, 50, shoemaker
Ann, wife, 53, washing woman
Daniel, son,16, agricultural labourer
Ann, granddaughter, 1
All born in Amersham except Ann, born West Wycombe."

I wonder if this might be Ellen’s daughter Ann living with Ellen’s parentts Thomas and Ann? Only a thought though.

Elisabeth

[jeeb]

Elisabeth,
I would think your thoughts are probably spot on, well found. Now the question is " Is Eleanor bap in 1828, the same as your Ellen?" The father is Thomas in both cases, wife Ann could be a second marriage or mistake in transciption or of the clerk, requires more investigation!
Jeremy

[jeeb]

Elisabeth,
The following information is interesting don't you think?

Thomas son of Daniel & Martha Morten bap. 2 July 1801 Lower Meeting House, Baptist Amersham.

Daniel Morten mar. Martha Hailey 4 April 1799 Amersham

The name Hailey is often used as a second name in Morten baptisms. Also there is a Thomas H Morten aged 30 with 2 daughters in Chesham on 1861 census. It gives his birth place as Amersham Bucks and his occupation as Shoemaker. Coincidence!!!

Jeremy

[E Skelton]

Hello again Jeremy!

I've now received Ann's birth certificate. She was born 17th March 1850 and as you suspected no father was entered unfortunately. Her mother's name is spelled Ellener Morten but no actual address is shown other than Amersham.

I've posted a message on the Middlesex forum but no respons there yet. I will have to try and get hold of the census disks I suppose.

The baptismal records you've found is very interesting. Have you got a CD with this information or is it through a web iste?

Elisabeth

[jeeb]

Hi Elisabeth,
Sorry, on rechecking the marriage of Daniel Morten 4 Apr. 1799 in Amersham the name of the bride is Martha KING. This will be the parents of Thomas born 1801, (Grandfather of Ann 1851 census) However a Thomas Morten marries Maria Hailey in Amersham in 1812, this will not be your Thomas, he would be too young to marry in 1812. After your information about Ann's birth certificate and her mother being Ellener, I think the 1828 baptism of Eleanor is the same person but why it gives the mother as Elizabeth and not Ann I don't know, I assume the only reason can be Thomas married twice unless it is a mistake in register/transcibing. A Thomas Honner Morten is registered married Sept. quarter 1841, Amersham. That may be worth looking at.
Glenys kindly offered to do a further search of the 1851 census, I wonder if she would be kind enough to list the Morten/Morton/Moreton in the Amersham area for us or if someone has access to 1841, perhaps they could see if Ellen/Eleanor aged 13 is with a widowed father named Thomas!
Cheers Jeremy

[busyglen]

Hi Elisabeth and Jeremy,

I've been tied up the past week, and have only just seen your post, but just to let you know that I hope to be able to do a search for the Amersham Morten/Morton/Moreton's in the next couple of days, and will let you know what I find.

Glenys

[busyglen]

Hi Elisabeth & Jeremy.

Sorry not to have been able to get around to this sooner, but it has been hectic to say the least!!

I too have found the one's you both mentioned and will put all the details here in case they are relevant. I did wonder about the Ann aged one living with Thomas and Ann, as she is shown as a Grandaughter. Often illegitimate children were shown as grandchildren, or on occasions if a young daughter had a child, her mother would say it was hers and not the daughters. Anyway, here are the two you both found with details.

Amersham Pt. 2
Piece 1717, Folio 359, Schedule 0066
High Street
MORTEN, Thomas, head, m, 50, Shoemaker, b. Amersham, BKM
MORTEN, Ann, wife, m, 53, Washing woman, b. West Wycombe, BKM
MORTEN, Daniel, son, U, 16, Ag. Lab, b. Amersham, BKM
MORTEN, Ann, GD, 1, b. Amersham, BKM

Amersham Pt.6
Piece 1717, Folio 426, Schedule, 0095
Brewery, Berry End
MORTEN, Thos. head, m, 65, Malster 22 men, b. Amersham, BKM
MORTEN, Meria, wife, m, 59, b. Amersham, BKM
MORTEN, John Hailey, son, U, 30, Malster's son, b. Amersham, BKM
PREEN, Wm. Serv. U, 26, Maltster, b. Amersham, BKM
HARDING, Ann, Serv. U, 18, House Servant, b. Gt. Misssenden, BKM

I did wonder about the PREEN, and wondered if it had anything to do with PREECE?

There was also a Charlotte MORTEN, Unmarried aged 68 living as a lodger with another family b. Amersham. There was nothing under Morton, or Moreton.

Glenys

[E Skelton]

Hello Jeremy and Glenis!

Thanks very much Glenis for helping with the details from the 1851 census. It confirms the information that I found on that other web site.

Jeremy, I think you've done a great job hunting down the ancestors of Ellen. I just need to have them confirmed through the 1841 census for Bucks.

I've just received the birth certificate for Thomas Preece which confirms that it is the right family on the 1861 census. His father is John Preece and mother Ellen formerly Moreton. They lived at Chiswick Lane in Brentford when Thomas was born 5 November 1852.

Elisabeth

[E Skelton]

Hi Jeremy and Glenys!

Thought you might want to know this. I’ve had some new help from Ian Preece regarding John’s whereabouts on the 1851 census. He found him under Pierce in their index but it says definately Preece on the entry.

He was entered as being 52 years old, agricultural labourer, lodger and widower. His birthplace is entered Hereford, Ploughfield. He was lodging with William and Susan Bedwell and the address 17 Square in Chiswick. The address is a bit odd so it is probably a continuation of an address on a previous page.

It must be him don’t you think?

Cheers,

Elisabeth

[busyglen]

Hi Jeremy and Glenys!

Thought you might want to know this. I’ve had some new help from Ian Preece regarding John’s whereabouts on the 1851 census. He found him under Pierce in their index but it says definately Preece on the entry.

He was entered as being 52 years old, agricultural labourer, lodger and widower. His birthplace is entered Hereford, Ploughfield. He was lodging with William and Susan Bedwell and the address 17 Square in Chiswick. The address is a bit odd so it is probably a continuation of an address on a previous page.

It must be him don’t you think?



Elisabeth, I only have a transcription CD so it's quite possible that there was a mistake made between what Ian has found and the transcription that I was looking at. When I have a bit of spare time, possibly tomorrow, I will look again and see what actually is shown on the CD, as I don't think I looked under Pierce, but can't remember now.

Glenys

[jeeb]

Hi Elisabeth,
It seems awhile since I looked into this family for you but yes I think it has to be John on 1851 census and it good to think we got the Ploughfield right. The fact he is not with Ellen Moreton on the 1851 census makes me wonder if he was the father of Ann. Can you locate Ellen on that census anywhere?
Jeremy

[E Skelton]

Hello again!

Ian found an entry of an Ellen Morten in Manchester (Well Meadow, 21 Buildings) that I’m not sure about. She is entered as being 20 years old, niece and born in Middlesex, London. A possible sister, 18 year old Mary Ann Morten also lives at this address (born in Middlesex, London). The woman they live with is Mary Ann Story (not 100% it says Story), wife, married, 47, birthplace Northampton.

I haven’t got access to the 1851 census yet but according to Ian it probably will be available on Ancestry.co.uk very soon. So, no, I haven’t got any other leads yet.

Your theory of John being Ann’s father is interesting. Do you think she is likely to be found near the Chiswick area?

Cheers,

Elisabeth

[jeeb]

Hi Elisabeth,
Well one must assume John Preece knew Ellen Morton by Feb 1852 if he claims the child was his born in November 1852. Unless John was an extremely fast 'worker' I would assume Ellen was in the area when the 1851 census was taken about 10 months earlier. It would be the best place to begin the search.
Jeremy