Should churches be locked?

[Guy Etchells]

Living in Yorkshire where many churches are kept locked as opposed to rural Leicestershire, where much of my research is based and most churches are unlocked I have often asked myself -Should churches be locked ever?

I consider that a church is used as a place of solace and worship for many and should be always unlocked to allow for access.

Others argue that if a church was left unlocked then theives and vandals would run amok.
Cheers
Guy

[peter nicholl]

A few years ago on the return from Yorkshire, using the scenic route, I stopped off in Donington in Holland. The church was locked but a sign on the door said that the keys were available from Blank. What would seem to have been a rota had obviously fallen into disuse. So on to Helpringham. again locked, but this time no sign. I stopped a passerby, who turned out to be Church Warden, and asked if it was possible to obtain the keys and if so, did he know who had them? This elicited the reply "Yes, but I'm not tellling you. It's people like you who steal things." :rolleyes: Charming.
Peter

[mary elms]

I consider that a church is used as a place of solace and worship for many and should be always unlocked to allow for access. Absolutely. Faith is about taking a risk and about trust and I feel that we have bought into a culture of fear when we lock our churches.

Up until 4 years ago (when we moved) I spent an afternoon a week making this possible in the suburban church we attended at the time as the members would only accept the church being open if someone was there. I sat at the back and read or sewed.

Quite a variety of people came in during that time - including some of the 'undesirables' I was probably supposed to keep out. Some people noticed me sitting there, others didn't. Some people came in for a chat, others came in just to sit. One lady brought flowers every year on the anniversary of her baby's death. When the church was closed she left them on the doorstep. Some brought opened beer cans in and smelled the worse for drink. But in all that time I never remember feeling threatened in any way.

Mary.

[coenmfam]

I think that it is sad when we see locked churches
or any place of worship for that matter
Mosques, Synagogues, Temples .....

There have been break-ins to a few churches here
sometimes it's musical gear, sometimes the brassware
sometimes it's just to vandalise something

it's something I don't understand
Neville

[Guy Etchells]

I would have thought that it was just those undesirables that a christian church was keen to attract.
"I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance." (Luke 15:7)

If undesirables are being turned away from churches then the churches are not doing the job they are there for.
Cheers
Guy

[mary elms]

I would have thought that it was just those undesirables that a christian church was keen to attract. Yes Guy - they should be.


sometimes it's just to vandalise something
it's something I don't understandI agree, Neville - vandalism seems senseless at the best of times


I think that it is sad when we see locked churches
or any place of worship for that matter
Mosques, Synagogues, Temples .....I have more sympathy with Mosques & Synagogues being closed as I'm afraid that events have shown that people's lives are genuinely at risk. But if our only worry in keeping our churches open is about vandalism & theft then, upsetting and a financial problem though that is, I believe that people are more important than things. And people need the churches to be open. Sadly the church I attend at the moment is one of the many locked churches.

Mary.

PS - It has been my experience over the years tht locking a church doesn't stop vandalism though it probably does stop theft.

[Geoffers]

I can understand the reaction, that if a church has been subject to attack or is in a high crime area, that those responsible for its upkeep may feel that it's best to lock the church - there may even be some requirement by the Insurers.

However, I think it's the wrong reaction - In my experience, it just means damage is caused should someone want to break in. Vandals/thieves who are intent on crime, if they cannot get into a locked church are more likely to damage windows and/or headstones.

Leaving on display within a church items which may be stolen is another matter. Anything from pieces of Tudor armour, stolen from Westwell Church; to pieces of tesserae, taken by 'souvenir hunters' from Widford Church (built on top of a Roman Villa) and all things in between, do need to be effectively stored when the church is empty.

Geoffers

[BeeE586]

What a vexed question, with no obvious answer ! Ideally, yes, churches should be open at least during the day, but perhaps not for twenty four hours. Ideally, in the time that they are open, no-one would enter to steal, vandalize, urinate or leave used condoms, all of which I have known. Ideally, there should perhaps be someone in attendance to speak to visitors, to offer comfort if needed, to tell the history of the church if asked or simply to deter anyone from undesirable behaviour.

In practice, how is this to be achieved especially in small country parishes ? Is it the responsibility of the incumbent or churchwardens to organize rotas for opening, or this yet another job to be passed on to the 'little old ladies' of the parish ? Many incumbents now have responsibility for two or more parishes, sometimes with very small congregations - are they expected to spend the day going from church to church to ensure that the building is open and safe from harm ?

I had a cousin in rural Lincolnshire who had seven parishes and five churches in her care, and she took a Communion service on Sunday at each church in turn - average attendance seven or eight, average age over seventy. They were villages where schools, garages and shops had closed, public transport had been drastically reduced, young people either moved out or commuters only - she would have loved the churches to be open, but there was no way.

continued

[BeeE586]

Yes, I am Devil's Advocate, but the situation in which my cousin found herself must be repeated the length and breadth of the country. Ideally churches should be open, in practice it is very, very difficult.

Perahps some of the people who would like to see them open have some suggestions that do not involve the 'little old ladies of the parish' who seem to undertake every other job from cleaning to flower arranging to making the coffee and washing up after morning service.

Eileen

[busyglen]

Leaving on display within a church items which may be stolen is another matter. Anything from pieces of Tudor armour, stolen from Westwell Church; to pieces of tesserae, taken by 'souvenir hunters' from Widford Church (built on top of a Roman Villa) and all things in between, do need to be effectively stored when the church is empty.

Geoffers

Agreed Geoffers. Harty Church on the Island where I live, had a very valuable, oak muniment chest, said to date from 14th century, stolen in 1987.
The church is in a very remote part of the Island, but is very interesting historic-wise. This chest was very heavy and I don't suppose anyone thought it possible to move, although it had been loaned to various museums over the years. Luckily, it was taken to an auction house to be sold and a keen eyed person spotted it and the police were called. Nowadays it is surrounded by a metal security screen, and the church is only opened for special occasions.

In case anyone is interested in this story you can read all about it here:

http://www.sheppey.free-online.co.uk/churches/harty.html

I also think it is sad that we are unable to pop into a church when we fancy, but thanks to the `senior citizens' that man a lot of these, this is often possible. Mind you, it mostly occurs in famous, or well talked about churches, but not in the remote parts where people wander, stumble across an interesting church and want to have a look inside, only to find the door locked. That's life today I guess. :(

Glenys

[jeeb]

Sadly it seems to be a reflection on society these days that many churches need to be locked to help prevent vandalism ane theft. Provided a notice is available to where the key can be obtained from I for one can accept this as a necessary hinderance. It is however, as a genealogist, a wonderful feeling to go and visit a church and the door still freely opens to welcome you.
What I do object strongly to, and it has happened to me on a couple of occasions, is when I make a special journey to visit a church and it is closed for a non religious function. On one occasion I made a special detour to visit a church in Cornwall to find it locked as a flower festival was being put on the next day, despite my pleading and telling the woman, who seemed to have taken on the role of St Peter, that by the next day I would be 200 miles away, she refused to budge. On another occasion I was refused entry into a church unless I handed over £5 entry fee to the maritime exibition taking place in the church. I wanted to see the church where a marriage had taken place not an exhibition. Churches are meant to be God's house and although I agree money has to be raised for their upkeep, no individual has any right to bar another from free entry.

[BeeE586]

To Busyglen - Thank you for putting details of your church on the Forum, much enjoyed reading it, and with Anglo Saxon parts no less. You were surprised that your heavy muniments chest could be taken - two complete fireplaces were chipped out and removed from the seventeenth century Rectory in the next village to me, both about 9 by 7 feet. The building was unoccupied at the time having been put up for sale. In another incident almost all the lead was stripped from the church roof, but of course no one saw or heard anything in either case. As you say, typical of the times in which we live.

I am so pleased the chest was recovered, we are still missing a Bishop's Chair and a table believed to be sixteenth century.

Eileen

[Ken Boyce]

As much as I would like to see them open I'm with you on this Eileen

In my opinion far too much time, effort, money, and resorces are expended by local congregations on the fabric and structure of the 'church' to the detriment of the spiritual side. Congregations have the burden of the upkeep of the building which in the case of some of our local churches here in Vancouver are regularly plundered for anything removable, even during the day. These drug crazed individuals, girls and their Johns, kids for kicks, etc. have not the ability to distinguish between theft and vandalism or what I was taught to believe is desecration. Do we also have to put up with shatterproof coverings on the inside of heritage windows as well as those on the outside? How unattractive is a bare altar Poor boxes have become strong boxes. Let alone putting some kindly volunteer at risk.

I may be quoting the extreme metropolitan case but any increased burden for what is more than just an inconvenience for the local congregation is in my opinion unfair.

It is interesting and not politically correct to ponder the fact that in the bad old days of excommunication, burning at the stake, and transportation, the churches could leave their doors wide open with impunity. Who has gone astray the church or society?

To be continued in a lighter vain

[Ken Boyce]

A number of years ago I was on a tour of local communities with a large symphony orchestra. One of the gigs was a performance in a somewhat small Cathedral. We arrived at the Cathedral sometime after lunch to set up and rehearse prior to the concert. The Cathedral dignitaries appeared to be quite perturbed at the size of the orchestra and the amount of equipment that needed to be accomodated (I guess they were used to having ensembles and not full blown Symphony Orchestras).

Before being allowed to set up and rehearse the full orchestra was treated at length to a lecture by a senior church official on how, what, and where we could or could not arrange the orchestra and equipment. In particular the Sanctuary, marked by a low carved stone balustrade, was well and truly declared off-limits. Even the passionate pleadings of our Conductor could not get any major concessions from this unwinged, demonic, messenger of God.

As a result of all of this the orchestra was laid out in an unusual manner with the Tymps and other banging and plucking stuff well to the side and for once well away from us brass players. The brasses were as usual treated as a necessary evil and I was squeezed into a tiny space tight against the sanctuary balustrade.

During the rehearsal the call of nature came upon me so during a long tacit period I decided to slip away to the boys’ room. It was then that I realized there was just no way unless a large number of musicians let me through (just like being seated in the theatre and bobbing up and down to let someone by only more so because of the added complication of what to do with the instruments). An impossible situation with no sign of a break in rehearsal.

I suffered in agony for some further period of time greatly cursing the on route sampling of the local brews. However, the thought of the upcoming Tchaikovsky on an extended bladder was enough to force me to slip over the balustrade into the Sanctuary whilst everyone was busy.

I was halfway across the Sanctuary when the angelic like voice of our lovely female Timpanist came floating across the stunning acoustics of the Cathedral at a decibel level above the sotto voce murmurings of the orchestral strings sufficient for all to hear – even God himself -

“God will get you for that Ken – God will get you”

[Geoffers]

It is interesting and not politically correct to ponder the fact that in the bad old days of excommunication, burning at the stake, and transportation, the churches could leave their doors wide open with impunity. Who has gone astray the church or society?At the risk of seeming a raging liberal, I do hope you're not advocating the return of burning at the stake as a cure for the evils in modern society? You must surely be aware of the adverse effect this would have on global warming??

Geoffers

[GeoffD]

At the risk of seeming a raging liberal, I do hope you're not advocating the return of burning at the stake as a cure for the evils in modern society? You must surely be aware of the adverse effect this would have on global warming??

Geoffers

Love your work, Geoffers!

[busyglen]

Eileen, glad you enjoyed reading about the church. It is very small and of course very old, in fact this summer they are actually installing electricity!! :)

Glenys

[peter nicholl]

Quote
"At the risk of seeming a raging liberal, I do hope you're not advocating the return of burning at the stake as a cure for the evils in modern society? You must surely be aware of the adverse effect this would have on global warming??

Geoffers"

From an Environmental point of view, or at least land usage point of view, then perhaps we could take a leaf out of the "Deferred Success" school of thought and have the best of both worlds with "Anticipated Cremation";)

On the serious side, I made a mistake when I went Lincolnshire as I didn't do a bit of homework and arrange a mutually convenient time to view the churches. I was after photos of some MIs. However, if I had wanted to go in to pray, contemplate, etc that would have been a different kettle of fish. Perhaps an answer to the latter point is to have modern day equivalents to the Lepers' cells/holes?? so that one could be in the church with all that implies and yet the contents would be safe from casual pilfering.

Peter

[BeeE586]

Lincolnshire has been mentioned in these posts, unfortunately with rather a bad press. For a couple of years during my summer sojourn in that county I toured the inland villages recording War Memorials. As you probably know, this was a scheme organized by (I think) the War Graves Commission to find out the condition of the memorials, to learn the size, shape and Map Reference of same, the material of which they were made, responsibility for upkeep and any other details. And, of course, names.

Many of these were either in churches or in the churchyard, and I met with nothing but kindness wherever I went. I have had afternoon tea with a Vicar's wife, morning coffee with a Churchwarden, three churches were especially opened for me when I 'phoned to enquire about access. One lady actually drove out from the next hamlet whilst I waited for her to arrive. I got a potted history of the village from an old farmer - the church was virtually in his farmyard and he kept the key. At some I was told, 'If you can come on such a day, someone will be there doing flowers, cleaning or whatever.' I went one Friday to a church which was being decorated for a wedding the following day, and I could go on.

Some churches were open, with or without an attendant, but over and over again I was told 'We would like to keep the church open but ......' and I would hear a sad catalogue of some sort of desecration or vandalism.

They were happy days and I got to see churches connected with my Lincolnshire families as well as doing what seemed a worthwhile task and meeting so many nice people. An added bonus was sampling lunch at as many local hostelries as I could.

Please, if you want to visit a Lincolnshire church (or indeed any other church), just ask and I am sure you will also be received with courtesy as was I.

Eileen

PS Actually, by far the easiest way to visit any church is to go to a service.

[Rdlester]

Our church here in Indiana is always locked when not in use for services. There is an elderly lady who used to play the organ at the church. She would lock herself in when she came during the week to practice. I was always glad she did. We had a burglar alarm installed at the church too. Also there were several church arson cases in rural areas here a few years ago. It is truly sad.

[Sheep]

Hey,
Our church is locked when not in use. Though I'm pretty sure that the Chapel opposite us keeps their doors open. Its quite annoying when you turn up at the church for an organisation and the doors are locked and you find yourself sitting on the doorstep for an hour because nobody answers at the rectory... happened to me a couple of times. Keeping the doors locked doesn't necessarily keep vandals away either. Our church was set on fire when i was about eight and the sevices where held in the church hall for about 6 months until the damage was repared. That church has been sitting there since 1600s, was made into a cathedral in 1800s and it only recently was purposely damaged. How well does that reflect on society today?

[Stephen M. Kohler]

Keep them unlocked!

I grew up north of Boston, Massachusetts. In my teenage years in the late 1960s and early 1970s I frequently made my way home from the library, DeMolay meetings, and work at night on foot. In winter months I walked by way of the most churches because in the rain or snow I could stop and warm up in the foyers. If it were not for unlocked churches those years might have been made miserable.

Not many years ago while stationed in Tallahassee, Florida and assigned to the 160th Military Police I was asked by a Episcopal priest/friend to perform a security evaluation of his parish because thieves had entered a rectory one night and made off with audio equipment and musical instruments. While working on the evaluation in the evenings I discovered members of the youth group handing stolen items out a window. My only recommendations to the pastor were, “Leave the doors unlocked,” “Approach the boys quietly and directly ask for the property back or seek compensation through their parents,” and, “Teach the youth group leader how to supervise teenage children”.

Fortunately my military vocation allows me to spend time on Army posts and installations where there are still unlocked churches. The chapel at Harmony Church on Fort Benning, Georgia is not used anymore except for an occasional family gathering or wedding. It was always a favorite place for me to get away and pray.

There are four old rural Episcopal chapels in the Johnston County, South Carolina parish that my wife and I visit every so often when visiting relatives down that way. They are always unlocked.

/R

Stephen

[Haggis]

The highly estimable Simon Jenkins, in the preface to his excellent '1000 Best Churches' said he had to rule out several contenders, reluctantly, because despite best efforts he just couldn't gain access. In one case he was brusquely told by a churchwarden or some such deeply Christian gentleman 'I wouldn't let you in even if I had the key'.

On the other hand one cannot argue with my local incumbent, a feisty lady, who reminds us forcefully that her fundamental job is to minister to her flock, and that she is not primarily a guardian of an historically interesting building with beautiful and valuable artifacts. So, in the absence of the 'dear old lady' referred to previously, what is to be done?

[Guy Etchells]

snip
On the other hand one cannot argue with my local incumbent, a feisty lady, who reminds us forcefully that her fundamental job is to minister to her flock, and that she is not primarily a guardian of an historically interesting building with beautiful and valuable artifacts. So, in the absence of the 'dear old lady' referred to previously, what is to be done?

I would remind that feisty lady that the reason for the church is to facilitate worship and not to act as a museum for interesting and valuable artifacts.
Far better a bare church with tubular seating than a richly endowed church that remains locked.
Cheers
Guy

[Stephen M. Kohler]

I would remind that feisty lady that the reason for the church is to facilitate worship and not to act as a museum for interesting and valuable artifacts.
Far better a bare church with tubular seating than a richly endowed church that remains locked.
Cheers
Guy

Aye, Guy! Agreed! Makes me want to belt out the lyrics to Jethro Tull's "My God". Sell the artifacts, crystal flower vases, the brass candelabras, and the velveteen robes and donate the proceeds to a worthy cause. The four Episcopal churches in Johnston County, South Carolina, and Harmony Church, Fort Benning are all wooden structures built from trees felled in the local forests. The wooden pulpits and the wooden pews are nailed to the floors. There are wooden crosses nailed to the walls. The only things not nailed down are the field mice peeping out from the corners. That's just the kind of place my God hangs out!

/R

Stephen
Washington, DC

[waspexile]

I'm delighted to say that my parents were able to visit the 1880 church at Northington (near Winchester) which was open on a totally deserted Monday afternoon (on a trip back from the IOW) to pay their respects to my gggg grandparents and ggg grandfather who are buried in the old churchyard, and whose gravestone is still there.

Well done to whoever helps look after the church.

[Ann65]

Every year (several times a year) we stayed at Brothertoft, near Boston, Lincs, and throughout my early years the church door was unlocked. It was always with glee that we would sit and gaze at the altar from the balcony, and enjoy the peace, whilst mum and dad busied themselves preparing flowers for the family graves. In later years, however, the door remains firmly locked. I guess the vicarage holds the key, we went once to ask for it, but no one was home. These days we dont bother to try, just pay respects at the graveside and leave.
Boston Stump (St Botolphs) is another matter. We have always found its door unlocked and were free to roam about looking at all the many artifacts and even climbing the old church tower, and viewing the town from 145 feet up. I used to take my cousins up there (typical really, they lived there and never went up there unless I took em ;) ) even today, the church is always open during daylight hours.

[Ann65]

When I began looking for my ancestors, I began to realise just how often churches were being locked these days. Hogsthorpe Church was open, but disappointing as they had uprooted all the gravestones and "helpfully" displayed them around the walls. grrr.
Bilsby Church was fabulous, a lovely peaceful little church with its doors open, in a churchyard containing the gravestones of my ggg grandparents.
At South Thoresby, my parents went MI hunting, and ended up in conversation with the people minding the church, who at a rare absolutely no charge, allowed mum and dad to ferret about in the church records and they then proceeded to photocopy details and give them to my parents. I bet that doesnt happen very often these days!. Incidentally, the church still has a witch-cover over the font.

[Ann65]

The best one though, has to be Swaby. Here we went to look at the real roots of the family, back in the 1600s, and here we found that the present church was the third on the site. No joy there we thought. Wrong, the local vicar was present and actually showed them a small silver chalice which was presented to the church in 1664, and chances were that my ancestors drank from the cup at communion. He graciously allowed us to photograph it. Overall, I cant praise Lincs churches highly enough.

As to the question, should they be locked? I wish that we still lived in a world where doors didnt have to be locked, but I feel that it would be all too likely that vandalism and/or theft would take place. It certainly would be lovely to see them open during daylight hours, thats for sure.