Daniel Plumtree 1851 & 1841 look-up

[Mike Hawkins]

Need help with 1851 & 1841 census infornation on family of Daniel Plumtree.
He was born in Tealby sometime between 1841 and 1846. I have traced him as far back as the 1861 census by which time he had already left home and was working as a servant elsewhere. I would like info. on his family in the 1851 and possibly 1841 censuses.
He married a woman named Elizabeth Ellis in 1874. She had presumably been married previously as she already had two sons when she married. She was born about 1843 in Bishopbridge. Can anybody give me any more information on her and her two son James(born 1868, Bishopbridge) and William(born 1870, Lincoln) and possibly her previous husband. Thanks

[Geoff Everitt]

1851 census

2115/41
Back Road, Tealby
William PLUMTREE 44 Farmer 18 acres, Benniworth
Susanna 40 Hainton
George 20 Torrington
John 15
Edward 13
Ann 9
Daniel 8
Maria 6
Thomas 5
Betsey 3
Susanna 1
All others born Tealby

1841
646-4/26
South Rasen Road, Tealby
William PLUMTREE 36 AgLab
Susanna 30
George 11
Frances 9
William 7
John 6
Edward 4
Ann 1
All born in Lincs

[Geoff Everitt]

1871
3424/38
Glentham (which I think included Bishopbridge)
Robert ELLISS 57 AgLab, Rothwell
Maria 60 South Kelsey
Elizabeth (dau) 28 West Rasen
Mary Jane 8
Fanny 6
James 3
Betsy 1
William 1

Children all "grandson/dau", born Glentham. No marital status for Elizabeth.

1861 - the last 8 pages for Glentham are MISSING - the last few which survive are quite ragged, I guess those at the back of the book didn't survive (Glentham was the last village in that census book).

[Pam Downes]

1871
3424/38
Glentham (which I think included Bishopbridge)
Robert ELLISS 57 AgLab, Rothwell
Maria 60 South Kelsey
Elizabeth (dau) 28 West Rasen
Children all "grandson/dau", born Glentham. No marital status for Elizabeth.

No wonder I couldn't find them in 1871 - would never have thought of putting an extra 's' on the end of Ellis.

I had already started to write the following till the 'puter went 'splat' on me (for the umpteenth time in a week - so much for faster broadband <g>) but considering that Elizabeth seems to have the same name as her parents in 1871 perhaps it is even more pertinent.

Elizabeth might not have been married before she married Daniel. Do we presume that you have the marriage certificate? If so, her entry should read widow, if she has been married, and spinster if not. However, if the vicar didn't know her then she could have lied through her back teeth and said 'widow' even if she hadn't been married but wanted to appear 'respectable' to her hubby and his friends.
By sending for the birth certificate of one of her children you should get her maiden name, plus first hubby's name. Or alternatively just her name and no hubby, which would assume that she wasn't married.

Alternatively a search through the PRs might find the boys' baptisms. If no husband's name is quoted then assume that Elizabeth wasn't married.

Pam Downes

[Geoff Everitt]

No wonder I couldn't find them in 1871 - would never have thought of putting an extra 's' on the end of Ellis.

You can do a wildcard search (always worth doing) - three letters plus a star - ELL*

[Procat]

You can do a wildcard search (always worth doing) - three letters plus a star - ELL*

Yeah, and sometimes you still wont find them until 'ell freezes over. :)

[Geoff Everitt]

1851

2115/284
Glentham
Robert ELLIS 33 AgLab, Rothill (a guide to local pronunciation?)
Maria 43 South Kelsey
Elizabeth 11
Joseph 9
John 8
Jana 6
William 3
Children all born West Rasen.

1841

642-9/4
West Rasen
Robert ELLIS 25 AgLab
Maria 31
Fanny 4
Joseph 1
All born in Lincs.

From the IGI

Elizabeth ELLIS (of Robert and Maria) bap 9 Jan 1842, West Rasen (batch C032061)

Daniel PLUMTREE (of William PLUMTREE and Susanna BETTS) bap 22 Aug 1841, Market Rasen - this may not be a register transcription and should be treated with caution.

[Mike Hawkins]

I am a newcomer to family genealogy and this is the first time I have used this site and forum. To say I am impressed is an understatement! Many thanks Geoff and Pam for your oh so rapid responses and your invaluable information. Long may you both prosper!

[Pam Downes]

From the IGI
Daniel PLUMTREE (of Daniel PLUMTREE and Susanna BETTS) bap 22 Aug 1841, Market Rasen - this may not be a register transcription and should be treated with caution.
I think Geoff had a senior moment here and meant to write Daniel, son of William and Susanna.

Pam Downes

[Geoff Everitt]

I think Geoff had a senior moment here and meant to write Daniel, son of William and Susanna.

Pam Downes
At my age?!?!? :stick out tongue smiley:

You're quite right of course Pam - one of the hazards of not "copy and pasting" in order to avoid copyright infringement. ;)

[Pam Downes]

Hi Mike,

Don't rush to praise us too soon - you still have to ask your second question! Though I do have to join in your praise of Geoff - he did a grand job. :)
However I'm not going to let him supply all the info.

From the Horncastle Deanery Marriage Index published by Lincs FHS

William PLUMTREE married Susanna BETTS 25 January 1831 in Benniworth.

And from the Westwold Deanery Marriage Index published by Lincs FHS this *might* be Elizabeth Ellis' parents marriage.
Robert ELLIS and Maria STAMP 14 May 1837 in Croxby.

And if you're still working out 'how to family-tree' you might find
http://www.british-genealogy.com/
useful

Pam Downes

[Pam Downes]

At my age?!?!? :stick out tongue smiley:

Sorry Geoff - I omitted the word 'very' before 'senior moment'. so :p back

(And I told you that it was necessary to visit the Lincs forum every day, but you didn't believe me then. Do you believe me now?)

Pam Downes

[Mike Hawkins]

Dear Pam,
I didn't realise genealogy was so competitive - can you suggest a fitness training programme.
Thanks for the marriage records. Re. Maria Stamps marriage to Robert Ellis - where is Croxby in relation to South Kelsey(her place of birth according to the census).
Finally, what's my second question and more importantly, what's the answer?
Cheers,
Mike

[Geoff Everitt]

Dear Pam,
Re. Maria Stamps marriage to Robert Ellis - where is Croxby in relation to South Kelsey(her place of birth according to the census).
Croxby is 9 miles due east of South Kelsey.

Bishopbridge is 4 miles due south of South Kelsey.

This looks to be Maria's bap (from IGI)

Maria STAMP (dau of John and Frances), 18 Jan 1810, South Kelsey (St Mary)

Batch C031512, they had 8 children baptised there.

1841 census
638-13/19
John STAMP 60 AgLab
Frances 56
Jane 24
William 15
George 9
Ellen 3
All born in Lincs.
Frances' and Jane's ages were originally written as above, then "rounded" to 55 and 20 to comply with the instructions to enumerators.

George is son of Sarah STAMP (according to IGI). I expect Ellen is also a grandchild.

IGI has this baptism-

JOHN STAMP (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/igi/individual_record.asp?recid=500065210634&lds=1&region=2&regionfriendly=British+Isles&juris1=Engl&juris2=Linc&juris3=&juris4=&regionfriendly=&juris1friendly=England&juris2friendly=Lincoln&juris3friendly=&juris4friendly=) - Male Christening: 28 DEC 1781 North Kelsey, Lincoln, England (of WilliaJane 24
William 15
George 9
Ellen 3
All born in Lincs.
Frances' and Jane's ages were originally written as above, then "rounded" to 55 and 20 to comply with the instructions to enumerators.

1851 census
2114/204
South Kelsey
John STAMP (wid) 68 AgLab, Broughton
Jane (dau) 34 House keeper, S Kelsey
Ellen Johnson STAMP (g-dau) 13 Holton cum Beckering

[Mike Hawkins]

Hi Geoff,
Thanks for another bumper bundle of information. You beat Pam to it again - I hope she's not going to be too upset with you!
Cheers,
Mike

[Geoff Everitt]

Mike

Sorry about the garbled info/duplication in my last post - this is a fault of the Message Board, not a further sign of the onset of senility.

[Pam Downes]

Sorry about the garbled info/duplication in my last post - this is a fault of the Message Board, not a further sign of the onset of senility.
Can you prove that? :D

Pam Downes

[Pam Downes]

Hi Geoff,
Thanks for another bumper bundle of information. You beat Pam to it again - I hope she's not going to be too upset with you!

Hi Mike,
No, of course I'm not upset about Geoff beating me to it. I think from other threads where we have both contributed that it's more a case of us complementing each other. (I know that in one case he provided a name that I had completely overlooked, and so helped solve a problem.)

To find places I always use
www.streetmap.co.uk
Geoff uses
http://www.multimap.com/
Also if you go to
http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/gaz
enter one place name in the search box, and when you get an answer, click on the OS Grid ref, you get a link whereby you can enter a second place and get an 'as-the-crow-flies' direction and distance between the two places.

From Lincs FHS Westwold Deanery part 1 parish register burials
Frances STAMP, 22 Mar 1846, aged 65.
John STAMP, 18 Apr 1858, aged 82.
Both abode South Kelsey, and buried South Kelsey.

I know the ages don't tie in with the ages on the census but they, Frances especially, seem a bit too obvious *not* to be them.
(You will of course refer to the parish registers themselves anyway to confirm the information. :) )

Pam Downes

[Mike Hawkins]

Hello Pam,
Thanks once more for the information. Yes, I'd put money on them being 'our' Stamps as well. And you are right about you and Geoff complementing one another - if only every County section had a couple like you!
Regards,
Mike