Name Changing ............

[AudreyF]

I've been researching my husband's grandmother for many years. I've had various posts on here and received valuable help. I have now decided, definitively, that grannie did not marry grandad and that my father-in-law was, therefore, almost certainly illigitimate although we doubt anyone but the main players would have known.

Tracking grannie through the years in the electoral rolls reveals that my father-in-law's father used a different name almost any time he, or grannie, were asked his name. He/grannie seemed to use his proper name of Charles Ernest Hawkins or Charles Hawkins sometimes and, other times, he was noted as Charles Fleming -her married name from her first husband (who, in turn, got it from his step-father!).

I have a theory now that Charles Hawkins may not have married grannie because he was already married so I'm off to look at that and see if he appears with his real name anywhere else in the electoral register.

It must have been very confusing for them to know which name to use, when etc. etc. but how did the name get on to the electoral roll? Was a form sent round to the house for the householder to fill in? Presumably, no checks were made as to accuracy and the householder could put what he/she liked? A problem might occur with jury service, perhaps.


Audrey

[spison]

Fascinating stuff Audrey,
They must have needed a good memory. I don't know anything about British Electoral Rolls and voting but are they actually there? I know that in Australia it is possible (now) to avoid being on a roll simply by not filling in the form but can't be certain about the process for being on the roll last century. (Australia has compulsory voting.)
Jane

[MarkJ]

Anyone in the UK can call themselves anything they like as long as there is no criminal intent to their using another name.
If I decide to call myself Harry Bloggs, then all I have to do is simply to start filling in forms etc as "Harry Bloggs".
The only problem will occur if I need to apply for something such as a state benefit, passport or driving licence etc. In that case, I would need to make it "official" via a "deed poll" - but in days gone by you probably didn't want a passport or driving licence and state benefits didn't exist anyway.
On many parish registers you will see entries such as "Mark Smith als Jones" or other similar entries which indicate that the person is known by more than one name.
One of my own ancestors uses a variety of variants of his name on each marriage certificate or birth certificate, but perhaps because he was a bit of a rogue and a bigamist to boot!

[AudreyF]

Yes, I've heard about calling yourself anything you like as long as there is no criminal intent but wouldn't an electoral form giving the right to vote qualify as something rather official? A person could be wangling multiple votes.

In all the theorising about whether grannie married, or not, and how and why Charles Hawkins used his wife's name we had never considered that he may already be married to another lady so that's my new line of investigation now. I still can't quite get my head around the idea that he registered his own son's name with that of another man and signed himself in the name of another man - I would have thought the male ego would not cope with that one very well. But, who knows - grannie may have been a force to reckon with!

[Megan Roberts]

I have a theory now that Charles Hawkins may not have married grannie because he was already married so I'm off to look at that and see if he appears with his real name anywhere else in the electoral register.Audrey

When was he born and in which area? There are lots of marriages for a Charles E Hawkins and one for a Charles Ernest G, but only one for a Charles Ernest; 1890 Kensington.

[olliecat]

When was he born and in which area?

There are a couple of threads by AufreyF on Charles HAWKINS/FLEMING here.

Electoral Rolls/Registers (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php/68075-Electoral-Rolls-Registers?)

Did they marry? (http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php/43974-Did-they-marry?)

[AudreyF]

When was he born and in which area? That's a very good question. My mother-in-law (our only source of information) says he "came from Aylesbury". Without a marriage certificate we have no idea how old he was, or who his father was nor what he did for a living so whilst I can see lots of men named Charles E. Hawkins I can't know which one is mine!

On his son's 1923 birth certificate he says he is Charles Ernest Fleming a hotel butler. When grannie died his son (my father-in-law) said she was the widow of Charles Fleming "a restauranteur". My mother-in-law said similar but then she only had their information to go on too!

[AudreyF]

As Olliecat has helpfully referred to the previous thread concerning this couple (Bertha and Thomas and Charles) I ought to update you on that line.

I did get the relevant certificates for Thomas James Hitchcock (who became Fleming and married Bertha) and the theory was correct. He was the son of Teresa Hitchcock and her first husband. Husband then died and she re-married William Fleming and they had children. Thomas James assumed the surname of his step-father and married under that name. I haven't found any clues that Thomas and Charles were related.

I haven't been able to find a death for Thomas James Fleming or Hitchcock and the probate calendar shows nothing conclusive, i.e. no mention of Bertha as widow. Similar story on the probate for a Charles Fleming or Charles Hawkins - nothing mentioning a Bertha.

I am absolutely convinced that Charles and Bertha did not marry although everything father-in-law said (and wrote) would suggest he didn't know or kept it very quiet. Charles and Bertha obviously lived together as man and wife and he knew them as Mum and Dad in the conventional sense - outings etc.

I can't find proof of Thomas James Fleming (born Hitchcock's) death nor the death of Charles Ernest Fleming/Hawkins. It may be that Thomas did not die and that is why Bertha could not marry Charles - in addition to the possibility that Charles was also married to someone else and not free to marry Bertha.

[olliecat]

AudreyF, since there is a fair bit to assimilate from your two threads, my suggestion is that you summarize the information (facts) for us or perhaps post a timeline for Bertha and her partners. I.e.

Date: Bertha SPRINGALL was born on - - - - at - - - - , parents - - - - and - - - -
Date: Bertha married Thomas James FLEMING in 1910 at - - - . Her father was recorded as - - - and his father as - - -
Date: In the 1911 census...
Date: The birth certificate of Bertha's first child - - - - has this information for the father ....
Date: The names of Bertha's children are - - - - and I have birth certificates for - - - -
Date: The - - - - electoral roll lists ....

Etc.

I think this might be helpful.

[kermie62]

Yes, I've heard about calling yourself anything you like as long as there is no criminal intent but wouldn't an electoral form giving the right to vote qualify as something rather official? A person could be wangling multiple votes.

In all the theorising about whether grannie married, or not, and how and why Charles Hawkins used his wife's name we had never considered that he may already be married to another lady so that's my new line of investigation now. I still can't quite get my head around the idea that he registered his own son's name with that of another man and signed himself in the name of another man - I would have thought the male ego would not cope with that one very well. But, who knows - grannie may have been a force to reckon with!

We have a rather amusing story in our family regarding grandmother having the baby, sending granddad off to register the birth who stopped on the way to "christen the baby" with his borther and a few mates. Granddad got too drunk to continue and his brother decided to do it for him being only marginally bit more sober himself The upshot was that the uncle ended up being put down as the father not granddad and it had to be amended later. It does happen. Also had a great uncle die quiet young and the registrar mixed up Dads and sons names on death register. So it does happen

I also had an ancestor who was a scoundrel and rather than change names, he moved states. Unfortunately his earlier wife who he had married bigamously had named thier child Gordon after her mainden name so the poor kid became Gordon Gordon

[AudreyF]

OK.

Bertha Christina Springall was born in St. Peter Walworth (21 Chatham Road) on 15th March 1889. Her father was William Springall an engineer journeyman. Her mother was Emily Springall. Bertha married Thomas James Fleming on 10th February 1910 in Lambeth. Her father's details were William Springall (deceased) a mechanical engineer - journeyman. Thomas said his father was William Millar Fleming a draper's traveller. Thomas was a bachelor aged 24 years old and a jeweller's salesman. Bertha was 21 years and a spinster. No occupation given for her. He lived in Clapham Park and she was at the Railway Hotel in Brixton.

Their first son was born on 29th March 1911 and named James William Hitchcock Fleming. Father's name confirmed as Thomas James Fleming an engine fitter.

Bertha is in the 1911 census in hospital with young James although he has another first name at the time so there was obviously a change of mind before his name was registered. There's no particular significance to this except that Hitchcock was added - obviously a nod to Thomas' roots. Thomas himself is in the 1911 census as Thomas James Fleming at home, on his own - day's after he became a father.

The First World War comes along and I presume Thomas James Fleming went to fight but I haven't been able to positively identify a service record or a death - under either Fleming or Hitchcock although I presume that as he married as a Fleming he would have continued with that name.

In 1923 - 12 years after her first child - Bertha has a son. (This gap suggests to me that she did not have a man around during those years) On 24th December 1923 my father-in-law is born in Camberwell and named Peter Charles Hawkins Fleming. His father registers the birth and says he is Charles Ernest Fleming a hotel butler. They live at 266 Croxted Road. Mother's name is given as Bertha Fleming, formerly Springall.

Bertha is in numerous London phone books at home and with her business (furniture) and is noted as B. C. Fleming (Mrs.) or B. C. Fleming or sometimes Bertha Fleming. Never any mention of Mr. Hawkins or Mr. Fleming. I've only just started to look at the electoral rolls but she seems to be there in various years and the ones I've looked at, to date, show a Charles Fleming or a Charles Hawkins. I've yet to do a detailed timeline of this.

Mother-in-law has been our only source of 'family folklore' saying Charles Fleming came from Aylesbury. She says he died in the Second World War when his son (Peter) was overseas but she knows no more. Bertha was, apparently, a very strong woman ("a bit of a girl") and owned several properties in London which she rented out. She lived in whichever one she fancied and moved frequently. I have some letters from her to Peter written just before she died and these back up the fact she owned several houses and rented them out. Her will left the properties to her son Peter and a very small sum of money to her first son (James), his wife and their daughter. It is clear from the letters that James and his wife were not her favourites - she seems to have adored her younger son, and he adored her.

Various addresses for Bertha are 93 Palace Road, 343 Norwood Road, 119 Palace Road, 266 Croxted Road and she never seemed to go far from her roots.

Thomas James Fleming was born Thomas James Hitchcock on 23rd October 1885 at 207 Stanhope Street in Pancras, Middlesex. His father was Thomas Hitchcock, his mother was Teresa Hitchcock formerly Kiernan. Father was a working jeweller. Thomas died at some point (probably after 1891 census) and Teresa (Theresa Grace) re-married on 1st February 1897. Theresa marrid William Millar Fleming. Both aged 29 years old, he was a bachelor and she was a widow. He was a commercial traveller of Kentish Town Road. Theresa gave no occupation but the same home address as William. William's father was James Fleming a draper, her father was Francis Kiernan (deceased) of independent means. William and Teresa appear in the 1901 census and have had other children. I believe the arrival of step-siblings led Thomas James to change his name and start using Fleming as a surname.

I hope this helps ............................

[MarkJ]

Yes, I've heard about calling yourself anything you like as long as there is no criminal intent but wouldn't an electoral form giving the right to vote qualify as something rather official? A person could be wangling multiple votes.



Electoral rolls are compiled from the information given. My own entry for example used to give my first name, middle name and surname. Over time, it gave my second name, my first name and surname... It now just gives my first name and surname.

*If* I had deliberately given my second name and then first name with an intention to also vote with my first name then second name, then I would have attepmted to commit fraud - which would be illegal. As it happens, it was just an incorrect form completion.