look-up please Westminster

[eli08]

Can someone please help Iv`e been 6 months trying to find my great grt grt grandfather baptism papers or anything earlier than 1861 census where i found him living with his family in Maidstone Kent .1871 and 1881 he was back in bermondsey with his family and 1890 both he and his wife died at St Olaves. his name is Matthew Holland born c1804/6 Westminster Middlesex occupation Tanner/Leather dresser he married Sarah Dodd from Epperstone Notts at St anne`s Soho and had 4 sons John,William,Matthew and George.any information would be appreciated as I have been stuck going nowhere for months.thank you .Elaine

[Goodie]

Can someone please help Iv`e been 6 months trying to find my great grt grt grandfather baptism papers or anything earlier than 1861 census where i found him living with his family in Maidstone Kent .1871 and 1881 he was back in bermondsey with his family and 1890 both he and his wife died at St Olaves. his name is Matthew Holland born c1804/6 Westminster Middlesex occupation Tanner/Leather dresser he married Sarah Dodd from Epperstone Notts at St anne`s Soho and had 4 sons John,William,Matthew and George.any information would be appreciated as I have been stuck going nowhere for months.thank you .Elaine

Elaine

I think that I may have found them in Bermondsey in 51.

HO107/1561 Folio 130r
11 Arms Place, Bermondsey

HOLLAND
Mathew, Head, Married, 43, Tanner, born E Retford, Nottinghamshire
Sarah, Wife, 42, born Epperstone, Notts
John, Son, 18, Tanner, born Bermondsey, Surrey
Mary Ann, Dau, 11, Scholar, born ditto
William, Son, 9, Scholar, born ditto
Mathew, Son, 7, Scholar, born ditto
George, Son, 2, born ditto

Goodie

[Peter Goodey]

"his name is Matthew Holland born c1804/6 Westminster Middlesex"

Elaine

The 1861 census, which you say you've seen, shows him as being born in "Belford", Notts, This must mean Retford which ties up nicely with the 1851.

I haven't looked at the 1861 image, only the index. What does the birthplace look like to you on the image?
What does the 1871 show as his birthplace?

[Mythology]

"I haven't looked at the 1861 image, only the index."

You're dead right, Peter, it's Retford - from Maidstone, Epperstone etc., this fellow doesn't cross his t unless it's the last letter (e.g. Druggist, Assistant) but he puts a loop in the l (e.g. Waltham, Scholar), and the first letter is nothing like the B in Bermonsey or Bearsted, which have a noticeable curly bit in the lower half, it's clearly R.

1871 he's in Bermondsey, complete with wife (who is still Epperstone) and two sons (Matthew & George b Bermondsey) but now thinks that he was born in Westminster.

(and if anyone reading this is waiting for a reply to an e-mail, I'm not at home at the moment, I'm using someone else's PC - and Ancestry sub - I'll get to you later!)

[eli08]

Thank you Chaps, I found Mathew Holland in the 1861 census as being born in Belford which is definately Retford because the Hollands are rife in Retford Notts like a Osmond epidemic,but as you said he had other idea`s in the 1871 census he `s saying he`s from Westminster which has been a nightmare I have wadded through every record in Retford and he does not exist.I can only presume he`s from Westminster,I am pretty new to all this ,bit of a ancestral virgin so to speak so what is my next step,are their any records exist online for me to look in to to find out his birth origin providing he knows and is truthful,I am subscribed to ancestry plus 1837 online but neither can go back early enough,oh sorry for not replying earlier but i had gremlins & my computer was violently rebelling,Thank you again chaps .Elaine

[Peter Goodey]

"I have wadded through every record in Retford and he does not exist"

Perhaps if you told us exactly what records you have looked at, we might be able to suggest a possible approach.

"I can only presume he`s from Westminster"

Hmmmm. Perhaps. In my experience, the earlier censuses are usually more accurate so far as birthplaces are concerned. But that's just a general observation.

[eli08]

I have looked through the Baptisms of Retford & surrounding area`s 1799-1815 and the 1841 and 1851 census returns of Retford plus Family search,IGI,FamilyHistory online these are the only places I know to look in.

[Peter Goodey]

Personally I'd look into the IGI entry for the baptism of a Matthew Holland on 25 Jan 1806 in Saxilby which is only a dozen miles from E Retford.

Failing that I'm afraid it's just a case of working outwards from East Retford not forgetting non-conformist registers.

The Notts baptism CD may be worth looking at if you can get access to it.

[eli08]

Personally I'd look into the IGI entry for the baptism of a Matthew Holland on 25 Jan 1806 in Saxilby which is only a dozen miles from E Retford.

Failing that I'm afraid it's just a case of working outwards from East Retford not forgetting non-conformist registers.

The Notts baptism CD may be worth looking at if you can get access to it.
Saxilby was looking good until I found daughter ellen born 1840 my Matthew had already Mary Ann 1840 it basically didn`t match ,I have been looking on the London archives but trying to find a unfamous family member seems just about impossible,do you know of a reputable pay as you go website with Westminster baptisms it`s only a hunch but I feel my Holland`s are not originally from Nottinghamshire and are from London.

[eli08]

Hello Everyone I'm back & asking the same questions as last time only , I'm £250 worse off after paying a professional researching to go over the Retford baptisms , I have pages & pages of Retford & surrounding area's baptisms coming out of my ears , and have found nothing with the help of Retford & Nottingham Archivists . only been looking for my Great grt grt Grandfather 5 years .
I have made a decission to try & find out about him before the 1841 census (and forget about the Retford connection for a time in hope I can find more out)
I really really could do with some help please-
Matthew Holland born c 1806 living in 1841 New Street.St mary Magdalen. Bermondsey .Surrey he's a Tanner his wife is Sarah Holland born in Epperstone ,
They married 1831 st Anne's Soho.
Are there any records before the 1841 census that could give me any further information .

[Mutley]

The family history pilot search site (http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=0)seems to cover Westminster baptisms. I cannot see a Matthew but there are a set of parents called Matthew and Emily Holland baptising around your time.

I entered in the search boxes
Holland, 1780 - 1815, London, Birth, Exact and Close Match.

It maybe worth playing around with.

[eli08]

I'm now playing in the Pilot LDS then on to check out Emily & Matthew Holland hoping they are still alive in the 1841 census.
Thanx Mutley

[Mutley]

I'm now playing in the Pilot LDS then on to check out Emily & Matthew Holland hoping they are still alive in the 1841 census.
Thanx Mutley

It may well be a long shot up a dark alley ;) but you never know....

I looked on the BIVRI which is the IGI CD's that are not published on their site, there are a few baptisms for Westminster but not for a Matthew. Seems the Mormons covered Westminster quite well so it may just be another elimination game. :(

Good Luck

[Squaredancer]

Hi

As you state that Matthew was in Bermondsey in 1841, 1871 and 1881, I wonder if this could be of interest?

The IGI has in batch no P001582 at Saint Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, the christenings of nine children born to Matthew Holland and Sarah:


John - 04 AUG 1833
Hannah Ann Elizabeth - 01 FEB 1835
Sarah Jane - 26 MAR 1837
Mary Ann - 21 JUL 1839
William - 24 OCT 1841
Matthew - 25 DEC 1843
Elizabeth Ann - 12 JUL 1846
George - 21 JAN 1849
Hannah - 02 MAY 1852

[eli08]

Thank you Square Dancer I didn't know they had any Hannah's born , both Hannah's must have died , I do know there were even more & twins all died, only John , Mary Ann , George , Matthew & our line from William survived , I'm sure there must be records before 1841 , I thought maybe Apprenticeship records as Matthew was a Tanner but he certainly didn't do his Apprenticeship in Nottinghamshire area , & I don't think many survived unless he was in a poor house of some kind first.
Elaine